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10-09-2004, 12:18 AM
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#1
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Ceiling Fans in Small Rooms
Hello,
I'd love some advice regarding ceiling fans. I am buying a new house
which has no central air and no ceiling fans. Central air is too
expensive a proposition at this point, so I was considering putting
ceiling fans in all the major rooms to improve air circulation and
cooling. Downstairs doesn't present a problem, but upstairs the
ceilings are just 7 feet high. There are three rooms upstairs =
15x15, 12x10 and 10x8. Are ceiling fans an option here? I've heard
about the 'hugger' models, but are they going to be effective,
espcially in the smaller room? If I do put them in, what do you
suggest for a blade length?
Thanks in advance for your advice.
Take Care,
Marta
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10-09-2004, 12:23 AM
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#2
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Re: Ceiling Fans in Small Rooms
Marta Pia wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'd love some advice regarding ceiling fans. I am buying a new house
> which has no central air and no ceiling fans. Central air is too
> expensive a proposition at this point, so I was considering putting
> ceiling fans in all the major rooms to improve air circulation and
> cooling. Downstairs doesn't present a problem, but upstairs the
> ceilings are just 7 feet high. There are three rooms upstairs =
> 15x15, 12x10 and 10x8. Are ceiling fans an option here? I've heard
> about the 'hugger' models, but are they going to be effective,
> espcially in the smaller room? If I do put them in, what do you
> suggest for a blade length?
>
> Thanks in advance for your advice.
>
> Take Care,
> Marta
Frankly I think ceiling fans are overrated. They can be convenient in
some situations and you may well have that situation downstairs, but with 7
foot ceilings, I don't think I would want one, even a hugger.
Any number of appliance fans are made. I suggest considering some sort
of fan designed to sit on the floor. Depending on your location, you may
want a window A/C for a bed room. I really hate trying to sleep when it is
warm and humid. A mobile fan will allow you to try it out in different
rooms so you can decide if it will work and if so you can buy more like it.
In any case good luck and stay cool.
--
Joseph E. Meehan
26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
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10-09-2004, 12:47 AM
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#3
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Re: Ceiling Fans in Small Rooms
"Marta Pia" <cliopia@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:31742630.0409090518.1d35aeac@posting.google.c om...
> Hello,
>
> Central air is too
> expensive a proposition at this point, so I was considering putting
> ceiling fans in all the major rooms to improve air circulation and
> cooling.
Ceiling fans don't help with cooling. They circulate the hot air and
sometimes the draft may make you feel a tad cooler if you are in the moving
air.
Much more beneficial, especially at night, is a fan to exhaust the hot air
and draw in the cool air. Whole house fans can do a good job. Fans don't
dehumidify either. You may want a small AC in the bedroom so at least you
can sleep well.
Ed
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10-09-2004, 01:10 AM
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#4
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Re: Ceiling Fans in Small Rooms
"Marta Pia" <cliopia@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:31742630.0409090518.1d35aeac@posting.google.c om...
> Hello,
>
> I'd love some advice regarding ceiling fans. I am buying a new house
> which has no central air and no ceiling fans. Central air is too
> expensive a proposition at this point, so I was considering putting
> ceiling fans in all the major rooms to improve air circulation and
> cooling. Downstairs doesn't present a problem, but upstairs the
> ceilings are just 7 feet high. There are three rooms upstairs =
> 15x15, 12x10 and 10x8. Are ceiling fans an option here? I've heard
> about the 'hugger' models, but are they going to be effective,
> espcially in the smaller room? If I do put them in, what do you
> suggest for a blade length?
>
> Thanks in advance for your advice.
>
> Take Care,
> Marta
7 foot ceiling? Yikes. I will not put an fan in unless there is 7'6"
clearance from the finished product. Even an hugger will not achieve this
in your situation.
Surely you mean 8 foot ceilings.
Not planning for the a/c now will cost an fortune later. At least install
the ducts and registers to an central location.
I agree with the whole house ventatulator. I grew up with one of those,
until Mom wanted a/c so she could sleep in the hot muggy nights of southern
Iowa
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.754 / Virus Database: 504 - Release Date: 9/6/2004
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10-09-2004, 01:37 AM
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#5
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Re: Ceiling Fans in Small Rooms
Edwin Pawlowski <esp@snet.net> wrote:
>"Marta Pia" <cliopia@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>...I was considering putting ceiling fans in all the major rooms
>>to improve air circulation and cooling.
Where is this house?
>Ceiling fans don't help with cooling.
They do, IMO, especially at night, helping a whole house fan or natural
ventilation. A narrow cool air stream won't cool the mass of a house much
at night. Cool night air needs to scrub the thermal mass of the walls.
>...the draft may make you feel a tad cooler if you are in the moving air.
It can make you feel a LOT cooler :-) See the ASHRAE 55-2004 standard.
Nick
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10-09-2004, 01:50 AM
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#6
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Re: Ceiling Fans in Small Rooms
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> ..
> Ceiling fans don't help with cooling. ...
> Ed
I think this tends to be a local thing. In some climates they seem to
work well and in others they are worthless. In recent years I believe they
have been over sold and many people in areas that they are not very helpful
for put them in and now a few years later, seldom use them.
--
Joseph E. Meehan
26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
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10-09-2004, 02:12 AM
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#7
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Re: Ceiling Fans in Small Rooms
I think those who are replying negatively are possibly a little too rich and
spoiled 
I have a moral problem with using too much energy, and therefore I do not
have, never have had, nor ever will have, air conditioning. I do have it in
my car, as it is more efficient to drive with the windows closed, but even
then use the "fresh air" vent option as much as possible.
That said, I've installed ceiling fans in most every room of both of the
houses I've owned over the last 17 years. I LOVE them. They work great. I
even installed one in the galley part (used to be a pantry, of all things)
of my 5 foot wide by 9 foot long "kitchen". It's a little 30" model, and of
course a "hugger". It helps enormously!
I've learned to love to hear the outside noises. I feel connected to the
world at large, and in touch with what is going on around me. I am often
the first neighbor to notice a problem, as others are behind closed doors
and windows and hear little or nothing!
The crickets at night and the birds in the morning are music to my ears.
I've had a whole house exhaust fan, and it works great, too. But it died
two years ago, and I've lived without it just fine.
BTW, I'm in hot and humid Baltimore, Maryland.
"Marta Pia" <cliopia@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:31742630.0409090518.1d35aeac@posting.google.c om...
> Hello,
>
> I'd love some advice regarding ceiling fans. I am buying a new house
> which has no central air and no ceiling fans. Central air is too
> expensive a proposition at this point, so I was considering putting
> ceiling fans in all the major rooms to improve air circulation and
> cooling. Downstairs doesn't present a problem, but upstairs the
> ceilings are just 7 feet high. There are three rooms upstairs =
> 15x15, 12x10 and 10x8. Are ceiling fans an option here? I've heard
> about the 'hugger' models, but are they going to be effective,
> espcially in the smaller room? If I do put them in, what do you
> suggest for a blade length?
>
> Thanks in advance for your advice.
>
> Take Care,
> Marta
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10-09-2004, 04:42 AM
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#8
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Re: Ceiling Fans in Small Rooms
On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 14:50:27 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
<sligojoeS_PAM_2@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>> ..
>> Ceiling fans don't help with cooling. ...
>> Ed
>
> I think this tends to be a local thing. In some climates they seem to
>work well and in others they are worthless. In recent years I believe they
>have been over sold and many people in areas that they are not very helpful
>for put them in and now a few years later, seldom use them.
I use my ceiling fan (in the computer room) almost everyday. I put
it on when returning from my daily workout or after bathing. It is a
blessing when the A/C needs repair. I have a small four-paddle
ceiling fan in the small room. All my ceiling fans are hard wired to
a switch at the door. I turn it off when leaving the room.
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10-09-2004, 06:16 AM
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#9
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Re: Ceiling Fans in Small Rooms
Phisherman <nobody@noone.com> wrote:
>...All my ceiling fans are hard wired to a switch at the door.
>I turn it off when leaving the room.
Good idea, except to help with night ventilation. FSEC planned a motion
detector for the lovely Gossamer Windward II fan, but it never got
implemented, perhaps because the blades or fan-wiggling triggered it.
You might put one on the wall.
Nick
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10-09-2004, 07:01 AM
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#10
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Re: Ceiling Fans in Small Rooms
Betsy <n0spam@spam.c-0> wrote:
>I have a moral problem with using too much energy...
Me too. Our UU church is having a candlelight vigil tonight for the 1000
Americans (and 1 million Iraquis?) killed in our latest Gulf war. Skipping
the candles and standing outdoors under our 1000 watts of dusk-to-dawn
parking lot lights might be more to the point. We might even (gasp!) turn
them off tonight. Our US energy appetite is a large part of the problem.
How did OUR oil get under THEIR country? :-)
>...therefore I do not have, never have had, nor ever will have, air
>conditioning. I do have it in my car, as it is more efficient to drive
>with the windows closed, but even then use the "fresh air" vent option
>as much as possible.
Steve Baer went all the way from Albuquerque to West Texas to find
a new pickup truck with no AC. He and his wife Holly use 80 kWh/mo
of electricity, less than 1/10 of an average US household.
>That said, I've installed ceiling fans in most every room of both of the
>houses I've owned over the last 17 years. I LOVE them...
And people feel cooler. Equally comfy at 80 F with no air movement and
82.6 F with 0.5 m/s, at 60% RH, according to the ASHRAE 55-2004 standard,
based on worldwide surveys of over 21,000 people.
>I've learned to love to hear the outside noises. I feel connected to the
>world at large, and in touch with what is going on around me. I am often
>the first neighbor to notice a problem, as others are behind closed doors
>and windows and hear little or nothing!
>
>The crickets at night and the birds in the morning are music to my ears.
>
>I've had a whole house exhaust fan, and it works great, too. But it died
>two years ago, and I've lived without it just fine.
You might replace it with Grainger's $73 4TM66 16" reversible window fan,
which moves 3290 cfm with 84.1 watts or their $183 3C614 20" window fan,
which moves 7005 cfm with 170 watts, which can capture lots of cool night
air. Typical whole house fans are harder to mount, leak wintertime air,
cost twice as much, and are half as efficient.
>BTW, I'm in hot and humid Baltimore, Maryland.
Moreso than Phila, at 77.0 vs 76.7 F in July,
with average daily mins of 67.2 and 66.8...
Nick
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10-09-2004, 01:17 PM
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#11
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Re: Ceiling Fans in Small Rooms
Thanks for the advice on the fan. How quiet are those window fans? My old
one (was really old, too--when I took it apart to try to fix it the
insulation on the wires just fell to pieces!) positively roared--and
vibrated the attic floor, too.
<nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu> wrote in message
news:chqcqb$b0p@acadia.ece.villanova.edu...
> Betsy <n0spam@spam.c-0> wrote:
>
>>I have a moral problem with using too much energy...
>
> Me too. Our UU church is having a candlelight vigil tonight for the 1000
> Americans (and 1 million Iraquis?) killed in our latest Gulf war. Skipping
> the candles and standing outdoors under our 1000 watts of dusk-to-dawn
> parking lot lights might be more to the point. We might even (gasp!) turn
> them off tonight. Our US energy appetite is a large part of the problem.
> How did OUR oil get under THEIR country? :-)
>
>>...therefore I do not have, never have had, nor ever will have, air
>>conditioning. I do have it in my car, as it is more efficient to drive
>>with the windows closed, but even then use the "fresh air" vent option
>>as much as possible.
>
> Steve Baer went all the way from Albuquerque to West Texas to find
> a new pickup truck with no AC. He and his wife Holly use 80 kWh/mo
> of electricity, less than 1/10 of an average US household.
>
>>That said, I've installed ceiling fans in most every room of both of the
>>houses I've owned over the last 17 years. I LOVE them...
>
> And people feel cooler. Equally comfy at 80 F with no air movement and
> 82.6 F with 0.5 m/s, at 60% RH, according to the ASHRAE 55-2004 standard,
> based on worldwide surveys of over 21,000 people.
>
>>I've learned to love to hear the outside noises. I feel connected to the
>>world at large, and in touch with what is going on around me. I am often
>>the first neighbor to notice a problem, as others are behind closed doors
>>and windows and hear little or nothing!
>>
>>The crickets at night and the birds in the morning are music to my ears.
>>
>>I've had a whole house exhaust fan, and it works great, too. But it died
>>two years ago, and I've lived without it just fine.
>
> You might replace it with Grainger's $73 4TM66 16" reversible window fan,
> which moves 3290 cfm with 84.1 watts or their $183 3C614 20" window fan,
> which moves 7005 cfm with 170 watts, which can capture lots of cool night
> air. Typical whole house fans are harder to mount, leak wintertime air,
> cost twice as much, and are half as efficient.
>
>>BTW, I'm in hot and humid Baltimore, Maryland.
>
> Moreso than Phila, at 77.0 vs 76.7 F in July,
> with average daily mins of 67.2 and 66.8...
>
> Nick
>
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10-09-2004, 01:21 PM
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#12
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Re: Ceiling Fans in Small Rooms
"Betsy" <n0spam@spam.c-0> wrote in message
news:J880d.6$%6.252@news.abs.net...
> Thanks for the advice on the fan. How quiet are those window fans? My
> old one (was really old, too--when I took it apart to try to fix it the
> insulation on the wires just fell to pieces!) positively roared--and
> vibrated the attic floor, too.
Most are fairly quiet but there will be some noise. Keep in mind, the fan
does not have to be in the same room as you. Proper window management can
get a good draft drawing the cool outside air in from the other end of the
house.
Ed
esp@snet.net
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
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10-09-2004, 01:53 PM
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#13
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Re: Ceiling Fans in Small Rooms
"Betsy" <n0spam@spam.c-0> wrote in message
news:J880d.6$%6.252@news.abs.net...
| Thanks for the advice on the fan. How quiet are those window fans? My
old
| one (was really old, too--when I took it apart to try to fix it the
| insulation on the wires just fell to pieces!) positively roared--and
| vibrated the attic floor, too.
|
I have this window fan (WCW-1616) and like it very much. It's quiet,
powerful, reversible and is designed to be mounted inside the window frame
so the window can be shut while fan is installed. I also like the thermostat
control that automatically shuts off fan when the air is sufficiently
cooled.
http://www.lakewoodeng.com/html/list_window.html
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11-09-2004, 12:28 AM
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#14
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Re: Ceiling Fans in Small Rooms
Hello,
Thank you for all your excellent comments. The new house is over 100
years old and is near Pittsburgh and I wish I were kidding about the 7
foot upstairs ceilings. My old house in Eastern PA does have ceiling
fans in just about every room and I am a huge proponent. Although
I'll agree they don't do the job on the really humid days, they are
very useful for the simply hot days and for air circulation. I do
plan to put a window AC unit in the main bedroom for the worst of the
days and an exaust fan is an excellent suggestion to assist in
cooling.
I think I will test out one hugger ceiling fan with no light fixtures
for the bedroom. If I find it works out here, I might install in the
smaller rooms before next summer. If not, then I won't have gone
through the expense.
Thanks again,
Marta
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11-09-2004, 06:19 AM
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#15
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Re: Ceiling Fans in Small Rooms
Betsy <n0spam@spam.c-0> wrote:
>How quiet are those window fans?
Grainger high med low speed
4TM66 $73 65 52 49 dB
5850 4400 3240 cfm
90 76 61 watts
65 58 53 cfm/W
3C614 $183 64 59 50 dB
8900 7627 5545 cfm
170 145 115 watts
52 53 48 cfm/W
You might buy 2 of the cheaper ones.
Nick
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