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31-12-2003, 12:16 AM
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#256
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Re: American dollars is plunging: NO MORE TRAVEL!
On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:49:14 +0100, Jeremy Henderson <me@privacy.net>
wrote:
>On 30/12/03 7:30 am, in article kY8Ib.11517$f3.3674@nwrddc01.gnilink.net,
>"Miguel Cruz" <mnc@admin.u.nu> wrote:
>
>> alohacyberian <alohacyberian@att.net> wrote:
>>> People who are enjoying life don't need drugs (sorry, I guess "stuff" is
>>> politically correct nomenclature) for enjoyment. Then again, if I lived in
>>> the Netherlands, I might want to take some drugs. Naturally as long as the
>>> Netherlands condones drug use and is also in charge of keeping the
>>> statistics about their use, the Netherlands will remain "average"
>>> according to the score keepers who will also ignore the drug-related
>>> deaths.
>>
>> Are you accusing the Dutch government of falsifying statistics?
>
>Lucky he lives in a country where drugs are not a problem, eh?
>
>J;
Nobody said that, just that we and 99% of the rest of the world don't
see fit to encourage it.
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31-12-2003, 12:22 AM
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#257
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Re: American dollars is plunging: NO MORE TRAVEL!
On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:27:38 +0100, "Sjoerd"
<sjoerdhahahaha@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>
>"alohacyberian" <alohacyberian@att.net> schreef in bericht
>news:E58Ib.560261$0v4.22753557@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>> "Miguel Cruz" <mnc@admin.u.nu> wrote in message
>> news:FR%Hb.11143$E17.953@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
>> > scott <dkf747@yawho.com> wrote:
>> > > mnc@admin.u.nu (Miguel Cruz) wrote:
>> > >> How would Sjoerd and his partner be forcing their views on anyone by
>> > >> getting married? I think we can safely bet you wouldn't be invited to
>> the
>> > >> event, so it's not as if it affects you in any way.
>> > >
>> > > Are you saying that there would be no effect on society if many gay
>> > > couples were 'married'?
>> >
>> > Sure, I'll say that. I mean, there will be the immediate effects (people
>> > protesting, etc.) but other than that, I can't imagine what effects
>there
>> > might be. Openly gay couples currently cohabitate, etc., so I don't see
>> what
>> > the difference is for uninvolved third parties.
>> > miguel
>> >
>> It isn't that simple, Miguel. There are a plethora of things to consider.
>> Companies that employ large numbers of gay people and also offer free
>> benefits to married couples might be impacted heavily. I've personally
>known
>> gay men who have married women from foreign countries just so those women
>> could obtain American citizenship. Might some of the single gay men for
>the
>> type of company mentioned above marry other single gay men who have AIDS,
>> but, no health insurance, just so the sufferers can get the health
>benefits?
>> Couldn't that impact the company's ability to remain in business? That's
>only
>> one example. It isn't a simple question with a simple solution.
>
>It IS that simple, aloha. In the Netherlands, we do have equal rights for
>same-sex couples and nothing what you fear has happened. You are just a
>bigot and homo-hater.
>
>Sjoerd
>
And you are the same bald faced liar as usual. No one here has posted
any anti-homosexual matter at all--except you, of course. Matches
nicely with your colonialist views of liberation, you simpleminded
moron. And, of course, since no one else brought this up at all, you
just had to to show your real agenda didnt' you?
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31-12-2003, 01:00 AM
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#258
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Re: American dollars is plunging: NO MORE TRAVEL!
On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 06:28:00 GMT, "alohacyberian"
<alohacyberian@att.net> wrote:
>"Miguel Cruz" <mnc@admin.u.nu> wrote in message
>news:AB4Ib.10266$f3.6744@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>> john <z2345678998765432y@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> > mnc@admin.u.nu (Miguel Cruz) wrote:
>
>> > So, how about it, Miguel, Is it alright if I marry my dog? We are in
>> > a loving, caring relationship.
>>
>> If you can convince me that your dog understands the ramifications and then
>> freely consents to it, sure.
>> miguel
>>
>Well, we can now see how important the word "marriage" is to you. (Quotation
>marks not meant to offend "dog-lovers" - pun intended.) KM
Apparently, he is not married and never has been married. Now we can
see why it means so little to him.
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31-12-2003, 01:07 AM
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#259
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Re: American dollars is plunging: NO MORE TRAVEL!
On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 01:20:32 -0500, nobody <nobody@nobody.com> wrote:
>Sjoerd wrote:
>> Indeed. Children deserve caring, loving, parents. Research has proven that
>> it doesn't matter if these parents are women, men, or a man and a woman.
>
>Caring animals can also do the trick. Tarzan turned out pretty well, didn't he ?
>
>At this point in time, it is fairly pointless to try to argue with americans.
>You can provide facts, links to stories etc. But then when they refuse to
>believe them, there is really nothing you can do.
Tarzan? Is that a fact?
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31-12-2003, 01:21 AM
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#260
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Re: American dollars is plunging: NO MORE TRAVEL!
jbk@piasystems.com wrote in
news:6eo2vvov4bldvmfic44ko8nf859uvu78jt@4ax.com:
> To me, it is simply a taxpayer issue. If taxpayers
> in a given country want to support whomever with their tax money as
> long as it doesn't hurt others, I could care less. What I care about
> is clowns like this doing the opposite--implicitly if not directly
> implying that there is something backward--or as someone said-
> immature if it does not go along with things like state-supported
> (meaning the taxpayer) euthanasis, legalized drugs, immigrants that
> they think should X or Y rights or whatever.
None of these are tax money issues. They are questions about a society's
concept of freedom.
> Most particularly when
> the vast majority of the world does not come close to agreeing with
> these policies
Should be irrelevant for their own decisionmaking.
> and the twit sees fit to attack the US as if it is the
> leader somehow of the opposition to these policies.
I didn't see any attacks, just defense of his own POV.
> I don't see him
> giving a list of all the countries that completely disagree with these
> policies in the world, do you?
Maybe because there are no usenet posts from there bragging about how great
their countries are.
--
Gaudete, gaudete, Christus est natus ex Maria virgine, gaudete
http://www.wschwanke.de/ usenet_20031215 (AT) wschwanke (DOT) de
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31-12-2003, 01:35 AM
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#261
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Re: American dollars is plunging: NO MORE TRAVEL!
On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 03:05:43 GMT, Goggler <spam@hormel.org> wrote:
>"Me.." wrote:
>> On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:10:00 +0100, "Sjoerd"
>> <sjoerdhahahaha@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>> >Indeed. To each his own. The concept of "best country in the world" simply
>> >doesn't exist.
>> >
>> >Sjoerd
>> Sorry Sjoerd,
>> The concept of the BEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD is alive and well ....but
>> only in one country ... the USA ... and the shitheads really do
>> believe it.
>
>Americans are taught that their country is the greatest
>in the world, from a very young age. Children are drilled
>in mass rituals, in which all schoolchildren stand in
>a ritual posture and recite a ritual oath of loyalty
>to the American flag. Although in most cases it is,
>technically, optional, every child knows that opting
>out would be impossible to to discreetly, and the adults
>organizing the ritual don't even have to take any action.
>The punishment will come from other schoolchildren in the
>schoolyard, on their own initiative. The programming
>works remarkably well. This begins at about age 5, and
>continues typically for 12 years. It's very effective
>brainwashing ... and it's done openly with the whole world
>watching.
That doesn't sound like the way it is at all.
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31-12-2003, 01:45 AM
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#262
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Re: American dollars is plunging: NO MORE TRAVEL!
On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 06:31:40 GMT, mnc@admin.u.nu (Miguel Cruz) wrote:
>alohacyberian <alohacyberian@att.net> wrote:
>> They don't send malcontents and America-bashers to New York City, San
>> Francisco or Washington, D.C.
>
>Since I've been sent to all three cities to work, does that mean that you
>are withdrawing my lengthy epitaph?
>
>miguel
KM, as you can see things have changed. Perhaps Alaska is the only
place safe from them now.
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31-12-2003, 02:16 AM
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#263
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Re: American dollars is plunging: NO MORE TRAVEL!
On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 02:35:31 GMT, eu@nowhere.com (Me.. ) wrote:
>On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 01:45:02 +0100, "Sjoerd"
><sjoerdhahahaha@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>
>
>> I am just getting
>>sick and tired of Vitaly, alohacyberian, jbk and their friends who always
>>claim that everything is better in the USA. I am just trying to teach them
>>some realism.
>>
>>Sjoerd
>>
>>
>You are wasting your time Sjoerd, allthough I admire your efforts.
>The USA system creates intollerant idiots who think they are the best
>in the world because they are constantly told that they are the best
>in the world by people who get stinking rich on the backs of these
>arrogant but ignorant and gullible idiots.
>Realism just isn't on their menu.
It's scary that you believe that. Here's an example of the anti-US
crap that gets posted. It is crap too.
>
>Maybe after the BSE problems really hit home they will become less
>arogant, but I doubt it. Their system is crashing around their selfish
>ears and they can't even see it. The rest of the (beef-eating) world
>is slamming doors so fast that the USAians can't here themselves
>think.
yada, yada, yada. You finished yet?
>They have trodden on so many toes, broken so many agreements, shit on
>so many other countries that those countries are clambering over each
>other to get revenge for the criminal trade war that the US has been
>waging for years. I'm keeping my fingers crossed, a good thirties-type
>depression would wipe the stupid smile off their arogant faces and
>force them not to interfere with the rest of the world for their own
>commercial or doctrinal benefit.
>
yada, yada, yada. You finished yet?
>Anti-Americans are not automatically communists.
>Sjoed is NOT a wacko with radical and unique views.
He can be. Of course seeing from your eyes you wouldn't think so.
>The views he expresses largely reflect the views of a substantial
>portion of the population of his country, and also 2 other European
>countries where I have direct personal experience.
So you're the expert on what people think? Your personal experience
of running with certain crowds, or swallowing everyhthing in the
media, is going to color your views.
>People who behave 'like-Americans' are hated.
>People who talk 'like-Americans' are regarded as stupid, arrogant,
>badly educated and incredibly brainwashed.
>
What behaviours are you talking about? Most Americans do not behave
in the ways often portrayed here.
>Just watch the news reports about the New Years Eve celebrations from
>around the world.
See you do swallow media crap. You can make pictures and videos say
anything you want them to. An example:
>From Australia, Japan, Germany, the UK, The Netherlands, Canada,
>Mexico, Tristan da Cunha and all other countries in the world you will
>see people enjoying the celebration with a drink in their hand and
>waving their arms.
>Reports from the USA will show 50%+ of the people waving the USA Flag
>... indoctrination at it's worst .. only Maoist China was worse for
>indocrination and flag-waving.
>Damning evidence of the self-centered arogance of that pitiable 2nd
>world country. "Wave the flag and maybe no-one will notice" that their
>economy is almost beyond recovery.
That's not evidence. I'll bet most parties don't even have a single
flag at them. All the media needs to do is get some footage and show
it, and you believe that it is everywhere.
The economy has been down, but beyond recovery?
>The people of other contries are all proud of their own countries but
>dont have that shove-it-up-your-nose arrogance that the USA seems te
>require to convince themselves that their country is worth more than a
>practically worthless dollar. Wave the flag and everything will be OK
>... and they do it aswell .. how stupid can you get.
>
You're establishing a new level of stupidity, so I guess you can get
as stupid as that.
>Ask people on the street in Europe what are the greatest dangers to
>world peace and the majority will say:
>1. Bush
>2. America
>and 3. Muslim extremists .. but a long way behind the first 2. and
>even then they will say that muslims (or others) may cause incidents,
>but Bush will escalate to war.
>Iraq, North Korea and Libya won't even be in the top 20.
>
>Go Sjoerd, tell'm like it is.
Which country? That certainly isn't true in Denmark, the country I
know best.
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31-12-2003, 04:31 AM
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#264
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Re: American dollars is plunging: NO MORE TRAVEL!
On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 01:20:32 -0500, nobody <nobody@nobody.com> wrote:
>Sjoerd wrote:
>> Indeed. Children deserve caring, loving, parents. Research has proven that
>> it doesn't matter if these parents are women, men, or a man and a woman.
>
>Caring animals can also do the trick. Tarzan turned out pretty well, didn't he ?
>
>At this point in time, it is fairly pointless to try to argue with americans.
>You can provide facts, links to stories etc. But then when they refuse to
>believe them, there is really nothing you can do.
Speaking of Tarzan, how could he appear so clean-shaven??
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31-12-2003, 05:14 AM
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#265
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Re: American dollars is plunging: NO MORE TRAVEL!
"lh" <a@b.com> wrote in message
news:3fedeccd$0$4749$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
>
> "Miguel Cruz" <mnc@admin.u.nu> wrote in message
> news:cMlHb.28144$Q%5.18371@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
> > lh <a@b.com> wrote:
> > > I think that you're overestimating the degree to which US media is
> > > monolithic. I certainly heard anti-war arguments, whether or not the
> > > newspaper or televison station airing the views came out and endorsed
> > > either camp. Actually I thought that the anti-War voices were pretty
> > > loud, at times even shrill. What did happen with Iraq though is that
> > > majorities from both major political parties in the States supported
> they
> > > war, so the US wound up with the unusual spectacle of both Democrat
> > > (liberal) leaning news services and Republican (conservative) leaning
> news
> > > services agreeing more than they disagreed. They disagreed more about
> > > which party was more to blame for the current state of affairs than
> about
> > > anything of substance. What was, and is, mostly missing from the
> > > mainstream Amecican media is those who take the view that it is not
> > > Republicans or Democrats that are the root of all the world's evil but
> > > that it is America that is the root of all evil. There are a few
notable
> > > exceptions though, such as Michael Moore, presidential candidate
Dennis
> > > Kucinich, a few Hollywood actors, and occionally we even get to read
> > > Robert Fisk's denounctations of the USA. But it should be
understanble
> > > why it is difficult to market anti-Americanism to Americans.
> >
> > You seem to be saying that being against the war is the same as being
> > anti-American. Does this apply to everything the government does? What
> about
> > being anti-ATF-at-Ruby-Ridge?
> >
> > miguel
>
> I don't know what transpired at Ruby Ridge so I can't offer an opinion on
> that.
http://www.boogieonline.com/revolut...orce/rubyridge/
--
"THE ARMY THAT CAN DEFEAT TERRORISM doesn't wear uniforms, or drive Humvees,
or call in airstrikes. It doesn't have a high command, or high security,
or a high budget. The army that can defeat terrorism does battle quietly,
clearing minefields and vaccinating children. It undermines military
dictatorships and military lobbyists. It subverts sweatshops and special
interests. Where people feel powerless, it helps them organize for change,
and where people are powerful, it reminds them of their responsibility." --
Author Unknown
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31-12-2003, 05:14 AM
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#266
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Re: American dollars is plunging: NO MORE TRAVEL!
"lh" <a@b.com> wrote in message
news:3fedeccd$0$4749$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
>
> "Miguel Cruz" <mnc@admin.u.nu> wrote in message
> news:cMlHb.28144$Q%5.18371@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
> > lh <a@b.com> wrote:
> > > I think that you're overestimating the degree to which US media is
> > > monolithic. I certainly heard anti-war arguments, whether or not the
> > > newspaper or televison station airing the views came out and endorsed
> > > either camp. Actually I thought that the anti-War voices were pretty
> > > loud, at times even shrill. What did happen with Iraq though is that
> > > majorities from both major political parties in the States supported
> they
> > > war, so the US wound up with the unusual spectacle of both Democrat
> > > (liberal) leaning news services and Republican (conservative) leaning
> news
> > > services agreeing more than they disagreed. They disagreed more about
> > > which party was more to blame for the current state of affairs than
> about
> > > anything of substance. What was, and is, mostly missing from the
> > > mainstream Amecican media is those who take the view that it is not
> > > Republicans or Democrats that are the root of all the world's evil but
> > > that it is America that is the root of all evil. There are a few
notable
> > > exceptions though, such as Michael Moore, presidential candidate
Dennis
> > > Kucinich, a few Hollywood actors, and occionally we even get to read
> > > Robert Fisk's denounctations of the USA. But it should be
understanble
> > > why it is difficult to market anti-Americanism to Americans.
> >
> > You seem to be saying that being against the war is the same as being
> > anti-American. Does this apply to everything the government does? What
> about
> > being anti-ATF-at-Ruby-Ridge?
> >
> > miguel
>
> I don't know what transpired at Ruby Ridge so I can't offer an opinion on
> that.
http://www.boogieonline.com/revolut...orce/rubyridge/
--
"THE ARMY THAT CAN DEFEAT TERRORISM doesn't wear uniforms, or drive Humvees,
or call in airstrikes. It doesn't have a high command, or high security,
or a high budget. The army that can defeat terrorism does battle quietly,
clearing minefields and vaccinating children. It undermines military
dictatorships and military lobbyists. It subverts sweatshops and special
interests. Where people feel powerless, it helps them organize for change,
and where people are powerful, it reminds them of their responsibility." --
Author Unknown
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31-12-2003, 05:14 AM
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#267
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Re: American dollars is plunging: NO MORE TRAVEL!
"lh" <a@b.com> wrote in message
news:3fedeccd$0$4749$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
>
> "Miguel Cruz" <mnc@admin.u.nu> wrote in message
> news:cMlHb.28144$Q%5.18371@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
> > lh <a@b.com> wrote:
> > > I think that you're overestimating the degree to which US media is
> > > monolithic. I certainly heard anti-war arguments, whether or not the
> > > newspaper or televison station airing the views came out and endorsed
> > > either camp. Actually I thought that the anti-War voices were pretty
> > > loud, at times even shrill. What did happen with Iraq though is that
> > > majorities from both major political parties in the States supported
> they
> > > war, so the US wound up with the unusual spectacle of both Democrat
> > > (liberal) leaning news services and Republican (conservative) leaning
> news
> > > services agreeing more than they disagreed. They disagreed more about
> > > which party was more to blame for the current state of affairs than
> about
> > > anything of substance. What was, and is, mostly missing from the
> > > mainstream Amecican media is those who take the view that it is not
> > > Republicans or Democrats that are the root of all the world's evil but
> > > that it is America that is the root of all evil. There are a few
notable
> > > exceptions though, such as Michael Moore, presidential candidate
Dennis
> > > Kucinich, a few Hollywood actors, and occionally we even get to read
> > > Robert Fisk's denounctations of the USA. But it should be
understanble
> > > why it is difficult to market anti-Americanism to Americans.
> >
> > You seem to be saying that being against the war is the same as being
> > anti-American. Does this apply to everything the government does? What
> about
> > being anti-ATF-at-Ruby-Ridge?
> >
> > miguel
>
> I don't know what transpired at Ruby Ridge so I can't offer an opinion on
> that.
http://www.boogieonline.com/revolut...orce/rubyridge/
--
"THE ARMY THAT CAN DEFEAT TERRORISM doesn't wear uniforms, or drive Humvees,
or call in airstrikes. It doesn't have a high command, or high security,
or a high budget. The army that can defeat terrorism does battle quietly,
clearing minefields and vaccinating children. It undermines military
dictatorships and military lobbyists. It subverts sweatshops and special
interests. Where people feel powerless, it helps them organize for change,
and where people are powerful, it reminds them of their responsibility." --
Author Unknown
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31-12-2003, 05:14 AM
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#268
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Re: American dollars is plunging: NO MORE TRAVEL!
"lh" <a@b.com> wrote in message
news:3fedeccd$0$4749$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
>
> "Miguel Cruz" <mnc@admin.u.nu> wrote in message
> news:cMlHb.28144$Q%5.18371@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
> > lh <a@b.com> wrote:
> > > I think that you're overestimating the degree to which US media is
> > > monolithic. I certainly heard anti-war arguments, whether or not the
> > > newspaper or televison station airing the views came out and endorsed
> > > either camp. Actually I thought that the anti-War voices were pretty
> > > loud, at times even shrill. What did happen with Iraq though is that
> > > majorities from both major political parties in the States supported
> they
> > > war, so the US wound up with the unusual spectacle of both Democrat
> > > (liberal) leaning news services and Republican (conservative) leaning
> news
> > > services agreeing more than they disagreed. They disagreed more about
> > > which party was more to blame for the current state of affairs than
> about
> > > anything of substance. What was, and is, mostly missing from the
> > > mainstream Amecican media is those who take the view that it is not
> > > Republicans or Democrats that are the root of all the world's evil but
> > > that it is America that is the root of all evil. There are a few
notable
> > > exceptions though, such as Michael Moore, presidential candidate
Dennis
> > > Kucinich, a few Hollywood actors, and occionally we even get to read
> > > Robert Fisk's denounctations of the USA. But it should be
understanble
> > > why it is difficult to market anti-Americanism to Americans.
> >
> > You seem to be saying that being against the war is the same as being
> > anti-American. Does this apply to everything the government does? What
> about
> > being anti-ATF-at-Ruby-Ridge?
> >
> > miguel
>
> I don't know what transpired at Ruby Ridge so I can't offer an opinion on
> that.
http://www.boogieonline.com/revolut...orce/rubyridge/
--
"THE ARMY THAT CAN DEFEAT TERRORISM doesn't wear uniforms, or drive Humvees,
or call in airstrikes. It doesn't have a high command, or high security,
or a high budget. The army that can defeat terrorism does battle quietly,
clearing minefields and vaccinating children. It undermines military
dictatorships and military lobbyists. It subverts sweatshops and special
interests. Where people feel powerless, it helps them organize for change,
and where people are powerful, it reminds them of their responsibility." --
Author Unknown
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31-12-2003, 05:32 AM
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#269
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Re: American dollars is plunging: NO MORE TRAVEL!
"EAC" <digicross@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6482ad0.0312280843.54c7feae@posting.google.co m...
> People generally don't promote homosexuality, since that they know it
> could mean extinction.
Don't you think 6,339,130,401 people is enough?
http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/ipc/popclockw
http://www.zpg.org/
--
"THE ARMY THAT CAN DEFEAT TERRORISM doesn't wear uniforms, or drive Humvees,
or call in airstrikes. It doesn't have a high command, or high security,
or a high budget. The army that can defeat terrorism does battle quietly,
clearing minefields and vaccinating children. It undermines military
dictatorships and military lobbyists. It subverts sweatshops and special
interests. Where people feel powerless, it helps them organize for change,
and where people are powerful, it reminds them of their responsibility." --
Author Unknown
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31-12-2003, 05:32 AM
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#270
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Re: American dollars is plunging: NO MORE TRAVEL!
"EAC" <digicross@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6482ad0.0312280843.54c7feae@posting.google.co m...
> People generally don't promote homosexuality, since that they know it
> could mean extinction.
Don't you think 6,339,130,401 people is enough?
http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/ipc/popclockw
http://www.zpg.org/
--
"THE ARMY THAT CAN DEFEAT TERRORISM doesn't wear uniforms, or drive Humvees,
or call in airstrikes. It doesn't have a high command, or high security,
or a high budget. The army that can defeat terrorism does battle quietly,
clearing minefields and vaccinating children. It undermines military
dictatorships and military lobbyists. It subverts sweatshops and special
interests. Where people feel powerless, it helps them organize for change,
and where people are powerful, it reminds them of their responsibility." --
Author Unknown
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