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05-06-2008, 12:14 PM
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#1
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(Part 2) Holiwood Nights May 24, 2008
The original plans for Saturday called for Me, Matt, and Dan to get up
and head to Six Flags Kentucky Kingdom for a few hours. We made plans
to meet Eric and his crew there that morning as well, before we made
it back to Holiday World for the waterpark. None of us, however, woke
up that morning. Everyone was exhausted from the day before, so
instead of going to Kentucky Kingdom we all got up and got ready to
head to the water park. We made plans for breakfast (though
technically we’d already missed breakfast) and then headed to the car…
only to find my tire completely flat. No biggie, I have a full sized
spare, right?
Right? Well, I do. But the special tool used to lower it wasn’t
where it was supposed to be. Neither was my tire iron or jack. You
see, a few weeks prior, my father was driving my Xterra with a pull
trailer hooked up to it. The trailer had a flat (well, 2 actually),
and he had to fix it with my tools. I told him to make sure he put
them back, but he put them in the trailer instead, so they were
inconveniently located in our garage in WV. Seven plus hours from
me. And not helping. Thankfully Rob had AAA, so he called and
explained that we didn’t have tools to fix our flat. They said
someone would be there in 45 minutes or less.
Well, Rob and Melissa made an ATM run and then went to Subway across
the street to eat while we waited. The guy that got the call to come
showed up, but AAA didn’t explain to him that not only were we missing
a jack and tire iron, we didn’t have the tool to lower the tire
either. So he took the tire and said he’d either fix it or bring
another one back. After he left with the tire, Rob and Melissa came
back and we headed to Subway to eat while they sat with the Xterra.
After we sat down to eat at Subway (it was a short walk across the
street), I saw Rob pull up in my Xterra. The guy fixed the tire for
$17 (Score!) and Rob and Melissa headed over to meet us. As we sat
and ate, Brad, Brian, Kris, and their friend arrived, so we chatted
with them a bit before finishing up our food and heading to the park.
We gave our tickets to the people at the gate and headed in and after
taking a semi-group pic, headed to Splashin’ Safari. This waterpark
gets much praise, and I hadn’t done a waterpark in probably 10 years,
so I was excited.
After renting a locker and cramming all of our stuff in it, we ran to
the first bowl slide. While in line we ran into Mike Miller who
joined our group as the rest of his group were lounging by the smaller
wave pool. Lines weren’t extremely long today, which was great. One
thing I liked about their park is that they didn’t have a problem with
me wearing a shirt (I hate to burn on my chest and back) or my
glasses. Mike, Matt, and I rode in a tube together (We must have
weighed close to 700lbs). The slide part of this was really great,
but the bowl was awesome! I’ve never done anything like this and it
quickly became one of my favorite water slides ever. That was hott,
even if I did bump my head on the side when we got to the pool.
I wanted to do the tornado slide next so we headed over that way,
stopping for a drink and running into Kris and Brad on the way. After
a quick potty break we decided to do the racing slides first. Mike
opted out, but the rest of us went to the top and waited so we could
all go together. These things are awesome as well! The final drop
launches you off of the slide, which scared me to death, but I loved
it. I’m so happy I had people to go to a waterpark with, because I
don’t like going by myself. After this we got in line for the
Tornado. The line was longer than the others we’d waited in, but not
too long.
We talked and gossiped and joked in line. At the top, Matt, Mike and
I again got in the same raft. The slide part of this is awesome with
to big drops that scare you in the dark. Then you slide into the
tornado funnel, where we were launched up close to the water line.
This was another great ride. I wish we had a waterpark like this in
West Virginia, because I would likely frequent it myself. When we hit
the pool at the bottom, our wave went all the way to the end,
splashing the life guard. No one else we saw did that. Our next stop
was the raft slide which just happens to be the longest of it’s kind
in the world. The line was longer than the rest, but the wait was
worth it.
For the 3rd time, Mike, Matt, and myself were in a raft together.
This thing is sick! I loved the faces in the tube, that was a nice
touch. And the raft really flew down the slide as we made our way
down, swaying from side to side. I can see why this was so hyped up,
it was an incredible ride. I loved it. I’d have done it again if the
wait wasn’t so long. Matt and Dan wanted to do another slide, as did
I. Mike was going to head over to see what Lisa and Jake were doing.
Melissa and Dan were pretty much finished with the water rides, so
they were heading to the slides. What was I to do?
Well, I was confused, and thought that Matt and Dan were following me
and Mike to The Wave to meet up with Lisa. Instead the headed to the
slide they wanted to ride. Mike and I met up with Lisa and I chilled
out there for a couple moments before making my way back to find the
group (they did have the locker key, by the way). I ran into Dan and
Matt, who just got off the slide they’d went to ride. Matt said he’d
ride again with me as Dan sat out. This was a dark tube slide with a
2 seater inter-tube. It was also a lot of fun.
Once we were finished, we headed over to the lockers, got all of our
stuff, and met Rob and Dan at the changing area and waited on
Melissa. Matt and I decided to do the log flume and rapids ride.
Dan, Melissa, and Rob had other plans to go and eat, so we split off
from them and did our own thing. The flume was fun, with a short
wait, but there could be a lot more themeing. I did like the tunnel,
it reminded me of the one a the Myrtle Beach Pavilion (only much
shorter). We headed over to the river rapids after that, and it also
had a short line. I expected to get drenched. I didn’t
(thankfully). Matt and I were put in a raft with another family. The
ride is fun, and you do get wet, but I missed out on the waterfalls
and came off actually dryer than I was when I got on (as I was drying
from the sun anyways). I saw Kyle holler at me and take some video of
us on the ride.
We got off and exited the ride (as I saw some kids in weird hats and
hula skirts bobbing up and down or something on the midway. It made
me laugh) and ran into the rest of our group getting ready for the
swings, so we rode with them. I’m not one to do spinney rides often,
but I did these, and had a nice ride. After we finished up we headed
back to the hotel to freshen up and change cloths. This was a quick
stop before heading back over to the park. We got to park on the
grass again up close to the tunnel which was nice. The closer to the
entrance, the less you walk when you exit.
When we got to the park and headed in but not before running into
Danny, Dawn Marie, and Russ. Yay! I hadn’t seen Dawn since she and
Russ got engaged at Dollywood in 2006. It was great to see them both,
now married. We got into the park and ran into more people, then went
into the gift shop so Melissa could get her shop on. Eventually we
all made it out (me without spending any cash). We saw Tina and her
friends as well as some other geeks running around. My priority was
to head to the last coaster credit in the park that I’d yet to ride,
so we headed to the kiddy section as Rob, Dan, and Melissa went their
own way.
On the way we stopped at the Betsy Ross Doll House after we watched
the new carousel for a few minutes (following a drink stop). I got in
line for Liberty Launch, but was told I could do it quicker later, so
we headed over to the Doll House. It was neat, but I was bored after
about 3 seconds. We got to the kids play area and I headed to the
HoliDog coaster while Matt took pictures and Danny, Dawn, and Russ
stood around gawking.
Howler-It was cute, and not rough. I got two rides in the back seat
and Matt got pictures. That’s all I really have to say. It was
simply another coaster to ride, and at least it wasn’t bad.
Matt took me over to this weird see-saw thing in the kids area, so we
played on that for a few minutes. Then I ran thru the fountains
shooting up from the wonderful foam floor. I wish theme parks had
this all over instead of concrete or asphalt. Next we headed over to
Voyage, but first we rode Gobbler Getaway. I don’t remember my score,
but this was definitely one of the better Sally Interactive dark
rides. I liked that you weren’t using a gun to get points. I liked
the themeing, and it felt complete (What is it with these types of
rides having a last room that is just painted black and not much
else?). Then we headed over for a shot on Voyage. The line wasn’t
long during normal business hours, and I rode with Danny or Matt, I
can’t recall.
It was getting close to dinner time, so Dawn, Danny, and Russ headed
to the picnic pavilions as we ran into Dan as he and Matt got in line
for the flyers and I headed to Liberty Launch. Liberty Launch was
fun, but I didn’t realize there was a single rider line. Nor did I
realize it was ‘mandatory’ for single riders. So, having waited in
the standby line for quite a while, I was told to get behind all of
the people in the single rider line, who hadn’t been waiting for even
half the time I had. I was not amused. Oh well.
Liberty Launch-This was my first double shot, and I have to say, it
was a blast (pun intended). Shooting up and then getting that great
pop of airtime that doesn’t run out on the smaller models is fun, but
then shooting all the way back up again is even better. I loved
Liberty Launch, and eagerly awaited the double shot at Indiana Beach
I’d be riding the next day.
As I made my way back over to Matt, I ran into Rob and Melissa while
Dan and Matt rode the round up. Then we all headed down to the Picnic
Pavilions for dinner. The park was closing, and we arrived 30 minutes
into the buffet, which means lines weren’t as long to get food. We
sat close to the buffet table with Dawn, Danny, and Russ. Eventually
Moosh, Mike, Lisa, and Jake showed up as well. Then Brian, Kris,
Eric, and Brad. Dinner was okay, but it wasn’t pizza. I love pizza,
and pizza the nite before was great. The fudge brownie thing I ate
was really good, though.
I took pictures and what not, and then they had the auction of 3
different items. I wasn’t interested in any of them myself. Then
Will Koch got up to go over his safety speech and what not. As he was
quite a bit into it, his voice interrupted him over the loud
speakers. It was closing time for the park and he and Ms. Koch have a
closing spiel that is pre-recorded and interrupted his speech.
Everyone, including Will, laughed hysterically. Then Ms. Koch came up
and they mouthed the parts for the crowd, who laughed and clapped. It
is nice that they have such a sense of humor. I went over to another
group table and got on camera yet again with a message for a missing
comrade. I’d love to see the video when it’s done.
Once they were done I ended up hanging out with Moosh, Dawn, Danny,
and Russ. I was supposed to wait for the people traveling with me,
but they were primping, or waiting for others to primp, and there were
coasters to ride, so I ditched them for a short while. Moosh didn’t
plan on riding anything but Voyage, but we talked him into a Legend
and Raven ride. The Legend ride was great, yet again. This is the
coaster I could marathon on. LOVED it. Loved it a lot! Mike, Lisa,
and Jake also ended up in our group as well, so I was riding coasters
with Dawn, Mike, Russ, and Moosh.
After our time on Legend, we headed up to Raven. It was almost dark
at this point as I rode in the back with Dawn. Going up the lift
hill, the train felt like it hit something, but apparently that’s just
normal for it to do occasionally. Raven was running better (for me)
the 2nd nite. I loved it more then. The non existent lines meant we
could ride multiple times, and I know I rode more than once. Once we
were on the exit, however, we stood and talked to each other and
others riding while waiting for the rest of the group. Then we headed
over to Voyage. I got rides in the middle of the train with Matt and
Frank, and at some point other people, and I’m sure I’ve forgotten a
name or two.
During this riding session, I came off the ride to take a break, and I
saw a friend talking to 2 other people. I was going to snap a pic of
him, but then realized he was talking to security, so I refrained. No
one seemed to know what was going on, but it didn’t look happy go
lucky, even if everyone was being cordial. I took a break and watched
to make sure everything was okay, then I was told why this person was
being talked to. A ride op said they smelled alcohol on his breath.
Now, I know the Indiana Law prohibits amusement park riders to not be
‘under the influence’ of alcohol (or at least that’s what I’ve read on
Holiday World’s website). However, I know that this person was not
under the influence. They had had a drink, or maybe even a couple of
drinks BEFORE arriving at the park, which is his right to do, since he
wasn’t driving, nor was he drinking on Park property. He didn’t deny
having had alcohol before hand, but I can vouch for the fact that he
was not under the influence. Apparently security told him he would
need to take a breathalyzer test. He refused. I would have as well.
I know that many people make the argument that if he wasn’t doing
anything wrong he didn’t have anything to worry about. Normally I
would agree with that statement 100%...if someone was referring to the
Government or some Civic authority. Because that is what they’re
there for. I don’t always have a choice with the government, and if
I’ve not done anything wrong, I’d rather be safe than sorry. Having
said that, this is an Amusement Park. I’m a patron. I wholeheartedly
would have refused a the breathalyzer test. No questions. I would
have taken the same attitude that said person did, left the park of my
own accord, and not have pushed the issue. But I would probably not
have felt like going back to the park, especially for an enthusiast
event.
I’m not a child. I don’t need babysat. I understand that the park
has reason to be strict. But even though the death at that park was
the direct result of someone’s own stupidity, the park was well known
before hand to have very lax rules as long as no safety devices were
being circumvented. How very hypocritical to become so strict now
that something bad happened. Either come up with a happy medium, or
don’t. But as a consumer of their product, I have the choice not to
come back. I’ll likely give the park a 2nd chance next year.
Depending on how that goes will depend on how I recommend the park to
others, as we were asked to do by management. It will also help to
make a decision as to whether I go back to said park. I love the
coasters, but I’m not going put myself into a position where I feel
paranoid and uncomfortable. And that is exactly how I felt when said
incidents where happening.
Having said that, I’ll go back to my trip report and report on the
rest of the event, which was pretty darn good.
I rode a couple more times on Voyage and even took a group shot of the
larger crew before heading over with Matt, Rob, and Melissa (Dan went
back to the room for the nite) over to Legend, and then over to Raven
some more. The walk isn’t far in this park between coasters, so I
didn’t mind switching up. Finally we headed back over to Voyage for
the last time. Danny and I got in the line for the front seat of the
train. This was likely the longest time I waited for a ride all
weekend. It wasn’t a long wait, but definitely the longest.
The Voyage-My last ride of the nite, in the front, with Danny. Even
though they’d turned the Mid Course Brake Run lights on for the 2nd
nite, the ride was still crazy. You can’t see where you’re going in
the woods, and I can’t help but laugh and yell and scream and hold on
for dear life for the entire ride. And just at the point where you
think the ride should normally end, you’re thrust into a twisting
bunnyhop, down beside the station, then another twisting bunnyhop over
the station, then down into some helices and tunnels before finally
hitting the brake run. I love Voyage. It is amazing. It is
incredible. It is intense. And because of the sheer intensity, at
this point it can rank no higher than #3 on my overall coaster
rankings, and #2 for just wood. I love it. I want more of it. But
I’m content to ride Swamp Fox all day, than to ride Voyage a couple of
times.
So ERT was finally over. We walked out with everyone left in the
group. Melissa and Rob had headed back to the hotel, so Matt and I
took Nicole back to the Xterra so she could guide us to the cabins.
Dawn, Danny, and Russ followed as well. This after party was even
more laid back. I had a cup of wine from Lisa and talked to Gary,
Mike, Mike’s son, Nicole, her sister, Moosh, Mike, Lisa, Frank, Kyle,
Dawn, Danny, Russ, Matt, Martha, and anyone else I may not have
named. It was a nice time. I love catching up with friends. It
wasn’t nearly as late as the nite before, but it was time to go. I
hugged everyone and said goodbyes, then headed to the car to wait for
Matt. And I waited. And I waited some more as everyone else was
stalled because of the parking. Matt didn’t realize I’d went to the
car, but he did eventually show up after my beeping and yelling his
name. We once again headed back to the Hotel so I could shower and
then for the 2nd nite in a row, pass out, exhausted, but happy from a
nice weekend.
I hope that Holiday World revises their policies on Enthusiast
Events. I had a nice time, but it was mired by what I felt was
severely unfair treatment to my friends. And that is the last
negative thing I will say in this trip report, because the good
outweighs the bad. Over the course of the nite, I felt that Ms. Koch
and Will Koch, who I joked with at least twice (and I’m sure he had no
clue who I was as I didn’t really introduce myself) were very nice,
cordial, and friendly. The park was one of the cleanest I’ve ever
been to. I didn’t see ANY trash for 2 days there. None. That was
awesome.
The food was good too. Not the best park food I’ve ever had, but it
was better than most corporate parks, and far better than just
average. The pizza and fudge were delish. The ride ops were very
friendly as well. The girl running Liberty Launch seemed to be having
a rough day, but it happens. Everyone else was very friendly and
cordial, neat, and well kept. And not talking on their cell phones.
That’s always a nice touch. And the crews running the coasters during
ERT were the best. They were friendly, funny, and let the crowd get
pumped.
The park is very nice. I think the park overall will rank very high
due to the almost sterile atmosphere of no trash, stains on the
ground, etc. And the park is very friendly. I hope that I get a
chance to go back next year so that I can get a better feel of the
park (as well as Water Park ERT so that I can spend the day there
during normal hours). Holiday World, while not my most favorite park
ever, was a nice treat, and I’m very happy to have finally gone.
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06-06-2008, 05:35 AM
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#2
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Re: (Part 2) Holiwood Nights May 24, 2008
Wow, it's a long TR here too! lol
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06-06-2008, 06:54 AM
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#3
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Re: (Part 2) Holiwood Nights May 24, 2008
On Jun 5, 12:35 pm, jeff.de...@gmail.com wrote:
> Wow, it's a long TR here too! lol
HAHAHAHAHA!
I Luv You Jeff.
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09-06-2008, 02:54 AM
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#4
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Re: (Part 2) Holiwood Nights May 24, 2008
Edwardo wrote:
>
> I hope that Holiday World revises their policies on Enthusiast
> Events. I had a nice time, but it was mired by what I felt was
> severely unfair treatment to my friends.
To be honest, I opted out of attending this event after hearing about
the treatment of attendees over the past two years. And sure enough,
Cindy called me from Holiday World and said she went to get some
aspirin from her car and saw Steve Nuss (a friend and former RRC
poster) in the parking lot with a group of friends. He told her he
was asked to take a breathalyzer test and he agreed since he'd only
had one drink before going to the park and knew he wasn't drunk. He
told her he registered .055, which is well under the legal limit for
intoxication, and was still asked to leave the park, merely because
they said they smelled alcohol.
I haven't spoken to Steve since then, so I have no idea if what Cindy
said is true, but she is never one to exaagerate when recalling
events, and I find it appalling. I went to Busch Gardens a few months
ago where they actually give away beer in beer gardens. Personally I
hate beer and rarely even drink, but imagine the reaction of patrons
if they were to encounter a Holiday World employee demanding they take
a field sobriety test. If you don't want to sell beer, fine, if you
don't want drunks in your park, fine, but for Pete's sake, so stop
being so angry at everyone.
Frankly, after hearing about past atttendees being treated poorly, and
this author's account of his friend being written up for not having
his feet perfectly flat on the floor, Holiday World sounds like a
place where you're made to feel uncomfortable and paranoid, and that's
not how I want to spend my vacation. I know Cindy won't be going back
and I won't either, I don't care how good their coasters are. When
you threaten to throw someone out for resting their feet one inch off
the floor, you've lost your mind.
MarkinArk
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09-06-2008, 03:46 AM
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#5
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Re: (Part 2) Holiwood Nights May 24, 2008
"Runaway Mine Train" <MarkinArk@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:bfc70170-5a18-45c6-9ebd-f2832e838ea8@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>When you threaten to throw someone out for resting their feet one inch off
> the floor, you've lost your mind.
>
> MarkinArk
Well said, Sir. I've been as big of a backer of the park as anyone, but I'm
more than likely going to Schlittercon next May.
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09-06-2008, 09:00 AM
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#6
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Re: (Part 2) Holiwood Nights May 24, 2008
"Runaway Mine Train" <MarkinArk@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:bfc70170-5a18-45c6-9ebd-f2832e838ea8@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> To be honest, I opted out of attending this event after hearing about
> the treatment of attendees over the past two years. And sure enough,
> Cindy called me from Holiday World and said she went to get some
> aspirin from her car and saw Steve Nuss (a friend and former RRC
> poster) in the parking lot with a group of friends. He told her he
> was asked to take a breathalyzer test and he agreed since he'd only
> had one drink before going to the park and knew he wasn't drunk. He
> told her he registered .055, which is well under the legal limit for
> intoxication, and was still asked to leave the park, merely because
> they said they smelled alcohol.
Just curious. Is your friend under age? That was the impression that Jimmy
and I had, but didn't know for sure. If he is, I can kinda understand the
park's reaction. If not, it does seem ridiculously heavy handed.
-Andrew
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09-06-2008, 11:22 AM
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#7
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Re: (Part 2) Holiwood Nights May 24, 2008
"Runaway Mine Train" wrote:
> Frankly, after hearing about past atttendees being treated poorly, and
> this author's account of his friend being written up for not having
> his feet perfectly flat on the floor, Holiday World sounds like a
> place where you're made to feel uncomfortable and paranoid, and that's
> not how I want to spend my vacation. I know Cindy won't be going back
> and I won't either, I don't care how good their coasters are.
What the hell is all of this with regard to people feeling "uncomfortable
and paranoid?" I mean, WTF? I've been going to this event almost annually
since 1995, only having missed 2 events (and yes, one of those 2 was THE
event where the accident happened). But in all that time, I've never felt
threatened or paranoid or uncomfortable at the park. WHY IS THAT??
Maybe it's just I just go to the event to ride the coasters and have a good
time? I'm not drinking, I'm not doing drugs, I'm not breaking the onride
camera rules -- funny how when I go and abide by the rules I having nothing
to feel threatened by.
But you know what? I'm sure the park's insurance company is all over them
since that infamous SRM event. And how many years has it been since that
tragedy? And you would THINK that by now, coaster enthusiasts would respect
the "rider responsibility" clause for this event?
Ok, so please explain the enthuiast who was text messaging while riding The
Legend. Or the idiot who was video filming The Voyage during night ERT?
I can't speak to why having your feet 1" off the floor is such a big deal
(and quite honestly don't even know how they would KNOW that?) But
regardles - it's clear from the ongoing incidents that there are trust
issues. So blame the park for erring on the side of caution when someone
shows up at the park who had been previously drinking. I understand the
whole arguement about legal limits and off-property and what not. But is it
so hard to see that such a thing as the *potential* to turn into something?
Maybe the park just flat out doesn't want to assume that risk? You may not
like it, but it's their prerogative.
From my standpoint, if you all feel so "threatened" by the park, no can
change your point of view. But I honestly have to sit here and wonder why
you feel that way. Cuz quite honestly, as a frequent attender, I do not
(never have).
???
-B
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09-06-2008, 12:38 PM
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#8
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Re: (Part 2) Holiwood Nights May 24, 2008
Well, this is going to be a shock, because I think (for once, LOL) I'm
going to try taking a very logical and balanced approach (hey, got to
make up for my outburst on Renegade last year, right?) in a response
to what I might classify as an emotional reaction in your response
Mark. I also might suggest that you try attending the event before
making decisions about it's worth. (That will be the last pointed,
typical direct remark - I will now attempt to be as balanced as
possible....)
First off - I think Eduardo did a pretty decent job of maintaining a
balanced view in his TR - he stated what he did not like, and he did
not let the negatives of that dramatically color his overall enjoyment
of the event - for someone whom I'm going to guess is pretty young
relatively, that's a plus.
So - on one hand while I would read his TR and go "wow, that *does*
sound a bit harsh" when the story about the feet up and the alcohol
story are brought up, but I don't know the original poster, and
therefore don't know any biases or any other things that might color
it. But yea - assuming he's totally unbiased, maybe upon initial
reading, that sounds a tad on the harsh side. But then I offer this:
The park suffers a huge tragedy and discovers the "dark side" of the
enthusiast community.
I think at that point if someone had asked me if they'd EVER have an
enthusiast event again I would have put my gambling chips on the "no"
column. From what they had to go through - beyond just the tragedy
itself in terms of the enthusiast behavior they witnessed, I wouldn't
have blamed them a bit if they said "nope" to anything in the future.
But they did go on, several years later, with enthusiast events. They
didn't need to.
The park *could* have built a new coaster that would have been like
the Ravine Flyer II (TR upcoming - a wonderful ride) and the public
would have loved it. But no, Will Koch went quite a bit further and
built what likely will go down in history as the ultimate intense
wooden roller coaster - a design that is so far beyond what anyone
else has done or what any other park would even remotely consider.
Would the much vaunted often-defended Knoebels ever build a ride like
this, for example? Hell no they wouldn't - I don't offhand know of
anyone who would try to build the ultimate AND be willing to spend the
neccessary money to maintain it, because they certainly knew the
maintenance costs on an aggressive "no holds barred" ride were going
to be more than a mid-pack mild GCI or something. But HW did and does
put the time/money into the ride.
So they have enthusiast events again, and I'm sure the legal and
insurance folks are all over them on that one, because of what
happened, and as Bill (Buckley) speaks about in his post, there are
very much trust issues, and I think with good reason. So a few events
have occurred now, and guess what - people are still breaking the
rules. No matter how many speeches they give, no matter what the forms
say, people STILL can't seem to get it through their heads that some
things aren't to be done. For example, this year we had no-lights on
the block brake during ERT on Friday night. That was sweet. Some idiot
reportedly tried to sneak a camera onboard and of course this causes
the neccessary reaction of having the lights ON on the block brake (so
the cameras could work), and you can't blame the park for that. So
here we are - once again, a few years have gone by and each and every
HWN event has had people breaking the rules. So, given there were and
obviously still are trust issues, I ask you this: IF attendees, across
those three years, had been perfectly behaved - no issues, do you
honestly think they'd still be doing the double checks of the lapbars
and overstressing the rules each time? Do you think the things that
occurred in Eduardo's post would have occurred? I would tend to argue
they would not have. Thing is, for three times now (if I'm counting
right), while I'm sure the enthusiast behavior overall has improved,
there STILL are people who break the very clearly posted rules. Put
yourself in their shoes - what would YOU do? I'd actually like an
answer on that one Mark - it's really easy to sit there and spout off
as you did about how you aren't ever going to come to the event and so
forth - and I don't really blame you and I'm not picking on you that
much because I have totally done the same thing in other situations -
but the ultimate question is - given the enthusiasts have repeatedly
broken the rules each and every year, would you, say you were the new
owner, do anything different? Sure - okay, there probably is some gray
area (because things aren't black and white) where maybe some things
are a bit overzealous, but I don't think they are at a point where the
event is no longer worth attending. I've been to each HWN that has
been held plus the ACE con and sure - it's a different atmosphere -
the whooping/hollering "whoo-hooo" and hand slapping are gone, and
yes, they are double checking to make sure you're following the rules
as you are checked in the train - but I've never felt uncomfortable
about it myself when I step back and think a bit about what the park
has gone through, what the park has given us (premier riding time in
an event of a great ride, even when I thought they'd never do it
again), and I can't really blame them for their approach. We don't
know the parks whole side of the story and likely never will - we
don't know the legal issues, the insurance issues, the restrictions
put on them by lawyers and so forth for them to even have events
again, for example, so for me to react to a post or report or two from
the event and just totally write it off without trying it yourself is
a bit immature in my eyes. Try the event sometime. If you personally
still feel, after thinking carefully and slowly about what the park is
*still* going through with enthusiast behavior and looking at the
*overall picture* of what they've given us in terms of both the ride
and an opportunity to get the best possible rides on it, and you can't
enjoy it - then I won't have any argument with you - but if you rush
to opinion and don't think it through, then I'm going to write this
post, as I have. And since you haven't shown up there yet (and if you
do, that means with an open, mature state of mind to the realities of
the situation), that means I'll call you out for it. I'm not saying
the park is perfect by any means, and I am slight disheatened by the
stories in Eduardo's post, but when I think about the continued rule
breaking over each and every event, I'm not really sure I can blame
the park nor can I say enthusiasts as a group in general deserve much
better until "we've" proven ourselves worth, and yet the park has been
plenty giving just the same.
-m
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09-06-2008, 12:48 PM
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#9
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Re: (Part 2) Holiwood Nights May 24, 2008
On Jun 8, 6:22*pm, "Bill Buckley"
<w.buckl...@verizon.forgetaboutit.com> wrote:
> I can't speak to why having your feet 1" off the floor is such a big deal
> (and quite honestly don't even know how they would KNOW that?) *But
> regardles - it's clear from the ongoing incidents that there are trust
> issues. *So blame the park for erring on the side of caution when someone
> shows up at the park who had been previously drinking. *I understand the
> whole arguement about legal limits and off-property and what not. *But is it
> so hard to see that such a thing as the *potential* to turn into something?
> Maybe the park just flat out doesn't want to assume that risk? *You may not
> like it, but it's their prerogative.
>
> From my standpoint, if you all feel so "threatened" by the park, no can
> change your point of view. *But I honestly have to sit here and wonder why
> you feel that way. *Cuz quite honestly, as a frequent attender, I do not
> (never have).
And neither have I. I had an awesome time at HWN this year. In fact it
was by far the best two nights of ERT I've ever experienced. I power-
rode Voyage non-stop for 2 hours Friday night and 3 hours Saturday
night. I only rode Legend twice during ERT (once each night) and Raven
maybe a half-dozen times over the course of both evenings as the ERT
sessions began. For me it was all about Voyage and I ended up getting
well over 50 rides total over two days.
Never once did I feel threatened, paranoid, or over-policed by the
park. Heck, I wasn't even aware of all the drama everyone is talk
about until I got home and started reading the trip reports. I feel as
if the HWN I attended was in some strange parallel universe...and Buck
was there! lol
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09-06-2008, 02:15 PM
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#10
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Re: (Part 2) Holiwood Nights May 24, 2008
"mamoosh" <msullivan@ntmllc.com> wrote in message
news:8d339cdb-6e86-430d-af52-d5afdd25f507@u6g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
>Never once did I feel threatened, paranoid, or over-policed by the park.
Neither did I...personally. What has changed my opinion was the ridiculous
banning of Nasai's friend Steven last year, followed by numerous people
getting "written up" this year for improper foot placement on the coasters,
and then topped off by the people getting yelled at for turning around and
talking to people behind them on lift hills (which I was sitting right next
to girlfriend for when she got hers).
The anti-drinking attitude I guess I can understand...although one wonders
how many of the GP pound a few beers over at Lake Rudolph and then come over
to the park. If they want everyone to be able to blow a 0.0 on the
breathaliser (which they had ready to test us with) then they need to put
that on the flyer. There's a big range between sober, had a drink or two
with dinner, and utterly shitfaced. The latter definitely don't belong at
the event, but the former two?
As much as I love to ride Voyage, I'd honestly rather spend my money to go
to an event where I and other enthusiasts are made to feel welcome, and not
given the guilty-until-proven-innocent treatment.
Which of course means more Voyage rides for the rest of yas... :-)
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09-06-2008, 08:58 PM
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#11
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Re: (Part 2) Holiwood Nights May 24, 2008
"BaSSiStiSt" wrote:
> Neither did I...personally. What has changed my opinion was the ridiculous
> banning of Nasai's friend Steven last year
Anyone know the circumstances behind this? Just curious.
> followed by numerous people
> getting "written up" this year for improper foot placement on the
coasters,
> and then topped off by the people getting yelled at for turning around and
> talking to people behind them on lift hills (which I was sitting right
next
> to girlfriend for when she got hers).
Weird.
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09-06-2008, 10:24 PM
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#12
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Re: (Part 2) Holiwood Nights May 24, 2008
On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 19:38:31 -0700 (PDT), nashvlmike@aol.com wrote:
>Well, this is going to be a shock, because I think (for once, LOL) I'm
>going to try taking a very logical and balanced approach (hey, got to
>make up for my outburst on Renegade last year, right?) in a response
>to what I might classify as an emotional reaction in your response
>Mark. I also might suggest that you try attending the event before
>making decisions about it's worth. (That will be the last pointed,
>typical direct remark - I will now attempt to be as balanced as
>possible....)
>
>...
While I agree with much of what you say, I do have to pont out a few
things:
I did not attend this year, choosing instead the WNYCC events at
Waldameer/Kennywood/Idlewilde.
I did attend the ACE Con last year and the first HWN the year before.
Both events were not very comfortable. It felt like constantly
walking on egg shells. You are afraid to criticize or complain about
anything knowing full well the ordeal the Koch's and the park went
through do to the actions of a foolish individual.
However, while I have great respect for the Koch's and Holiday World,
and adore their park and their coasters, I am afraid that they are
falling victim to the rule of unintended consequences.
Most coaster enthusiasts attend events for the benefits, not to have
restrictions placed upon them not uniformly applied to the GP. The
events I attended had many instances of this. This can be quite
alienating.
Example: At the ACE Con an announcement was made about no lanyards
plus a mandate to have the event badge on at all times. I know all
about the BS of using the lanyards to somehow keep restraint bars
elevated. However,, I am one of those for whom this created a
Catch-22. I refuse to put permanent holes in my clothes, thus use the
lanyard for my name badge. Putting the badge on a pants loop,
inevitably leads to a bleeding groin once the pin opens mid-ride. I
was quite put off, especially once I saw the official Holiday World
lanyards on sale in multiple gift shops plus the GP having all sorts
of crap on lanyards around their necks.
If they wanted to ban lanyards to prevent shenanigans with the lap
bars, that would be fine IF AND ONLY IF they a) came up themselves
with an acceptable alternative for those not willing to pin badges to
their shirts b) pulled the lanyards off the store shelves and c)
banned lanyards for everyone, not just the event attendees.
Second: This bending over backwards to keep the event invisible to
the local day guests. Twice I was stuck, as a non-water park person,
at a two hour morning ERT in the waterpark. If you wanted breakfast
and shmoozing time, you had to attend. Unfortunately, it is good for
an hour, and the second hour is park time, when the rides are open and
the GP are in. Yet that hour is lost to those who want it do to an
absolute restriction to staying in the waterpark.
The list goes on.
Now, I can't comment on the alcohol issue except to say that if a
ride-op can smell AOB (medical term for Alcohol on Breath) from the
usual distance, there may be a problem. Yet from experience, to smell
a single drink at dinner hours before entering a park, I would think
one would have to literally stick their nose into someone's mouth.
On the issue of raising one's feet off the floor while sitting in the
coaster car: Not only do i see the problem with doing this, I see a
problem with making a rule against it. This one again is the rule of
unintended consequences:
Here is a list: Tourette's Syndrome, Restless Leg Syndrome,
Parkinson's Disease, Huntington's Disease, Dystonia, Cerebral Palsy,
Attention Defecit Hyperactivity Disorder, Leg Cramps, Foot Tapping
Anxiety, etc, etc , etc.
What does this list have in common? All of them may physically
prevent a guest from complying with keeping his or her feet firmly
planted on the floor of the car for a prolonged time.
Are they seriously going to penalize, or humiliate, such a person? I
can see the process servers circling.
Why do parks again and again in their attempts to prevent one type of
lawsuit create rules that only open them up to a different type of
lawsuit (see trip and fall risks when you ban eyeglasses i.e.
Knott's). This rule may be an ADA issue.
Now, I love holiday World and the Raven/Legend/Voyage trio. I look
forward to my next visit. however, if coaster events there are going
to be a force feeding of tough love from the management, which
basically is what all this is, I think i'll stick with taking my
discount at the gate and blending in with the GP on my own.
I just wish Paula would do some damage control here as I know she
montiors this newsgroup.
Regards,
David
Remove NOSPAM to contact me.
Proud to be an Attraction Traveller:
Amusement and Theme Parks
Zoos and Aquaria
Historic Sights
Museums
Urban Centers and Urban Hiking
Unique Commercial Sights
Americana and Kitsch
I know, its a euphemism for "tourist" but I don't care!
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10-06-2008, 12:26 AM
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#13
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Re: (Part 2) Holiwood Nights May 24, 2008
One item that I don't think has been pointed out yet, but is worth
noting...
Take a look at holidayworld.com/info.html . Scroll down to the
section titled "Rider Responsibility". Note the sentence: "Patrons
have a duty to not participate in or on any amusement ride, device
or attraction when under the influence of drugs or alcohol."
Also note that it's apparently not just a park rule, but also part
of Indiana's Rider Responsibility law.
For what it's worth...
-s
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10-06-2008, 03:03 AM
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#14
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Re: (Part 2) Holiwood Nights May 24, 2008
On Jun 9, 5:24*am, David F <DocDav...@NOSPAMworldnet.att.net> wrote:
> Example: *At the ACE Con an announcement was made about no lanyards
> plus a mandate to have the event badge on at all times. *I know all
> about the BS of using the lanyards to somehow keep restraint bars
> elevated. *However,, I am one of those for whom this created a
> Catch-22. *I refuse to put permanent holes in my clothes, thus use the
> lanyard for my name badge. *Putting the badge on a pants loop,
> inevitably leads to a bleeding groin once the pin opens mid-ride. *I
> was quite put off, especially once I saw the official Holiday World
> lanyards on sale in multiple gift shops plus the GP having all sorts
> of crap on lanyards around their necks.
The solution is easy: wear a shirt that buttons up the front (or a
"golf" style shirt that has three buttons extending down from the
neck) and pin the name tag though one of fabric's button holes, or
heck even though one of the buttons.
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10-06-2008, 09:19 AM
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#15
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Re: (Part 2) Holiwood Nights May 24, 2008
In article <484d3da8$0$289$b45e6eb0@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>,
mamros@mit.edu (Shawn Mamros) wrote:
> One item that I don't think has been pointed out yet, but is worth
> noting...
>
> Take a look at holidayworld.com/info.html . Scroll down to the
> section titled "Rider Responsibility". Note the sentence: "Patrons
> have a duty to not participate in or on any amusement ride, device
> or attraction when under the influence of drugs or alcohol."
>
> Also note that it's apparently not just a park rule, but also part
> of Indiana's Rider Responsibility law.
>
> For what it's worth...
There must be some leeway in that law, though. After all, you can have
drinks right on Indiana Beach's property and go riding right afterwards
with no adverse consequences. I assume that operators would bust
somebody who was obviously drunk, but a drink or two in the Sky Room or
Rooftop Garden isn't a problem. The reports of what happened at HWN are
not essentially different from that--at least assuming they're
accurately being reported here. (I must say that when I first heard of
the incidents in the park I thought it was much more of an "ACErs Rule"
type of situation.)
--
Dave Sandborg
Remove Spam-away to respond via e-mail.
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