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24-06-2008, 01:30 AM
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#1
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My (very late) HoliWood Nights TR
Yep, it's been a month since Holiwood Nights. If you think this topic is
dated, read no more. This was written Thurs May 29 as part of a private
email. Life interrupted: illness, significant family events, a wedding (not
mine) have occupied my time. Now, this TR is posted by request. I am aware
of the sturm und drang regarding the event. In no way do I diminish the
opinions of others regarding their experiences. As someone who had never
been to Holiday World or an 'enthusiast event', this simply gives my
impression of what I experienced:
* * *
May 25 -26, 2008 - HoliWood Nights at Holiday World, in Santa Claus Indiana:
I loved the coasters and Holiday World. I do not even know how many coaster
rides I had, although I have tried to count them up. Maybe 40? I didn't
'hate' any of them, but if I had to choose I would say Voyage is best and
Legend is my least favorite. I even did the Howler - 2X. I also did some
flat rides, such as Liberty Launch, The Scrambler, HallowSwings, Gobbler
Getaway and Turkey Whirl. Although I went and got wet there, I won't take
the time to discuss Splashin' Safari.
Raven is good, and I like it, except it seems too short - as if it ends too
soon? Legend is good for length, but I don't care so much about all the
side to side lateral action. Howler is cute and I enjoyed seeing little kids
having fun on it. And then there is The Voyage.
I've never been to Holiday World before, did not really know it existed
until several years ago. So, I'd never been on The Voyage (or any other ride
there) before this trip. Can't compare it to when it was new, or sometime
when it was raining, or a ride when the moon was in retrograde with Jupiter,
or any other occasion. For every attraction at H. W., this was my first time
to experience them.
I was definitely intimidated by The Voyage, from discussion, and from seeing
it. I had doubts about whether I would tolerate it, or even like it at all?
But it ended up being my favorite.
I went to Holiday World to "DO" this event. I mean I wanted to do
everything, see everything, as much as possible. So, I very much wanted to
go on the walkback for Voyage, which I did. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I loved
seeing every inch of the thing. Holding a metal post under the lift hill and
feeling the train returning, going overhead, and roaring back to the
station. Seeing it go thru the woods, the tunnels, the banked turns. It was
fascinating for me. This was something I had never had an opportunity to do
before. Maybe I'm a geek, but I don't care.
I did a couple of Voyage rides early in ERT, including a back seat ride on
which someone up front was holding up a camera for the entire ride. Gee,
wouldn't that have been nice to fly back and hit me (or someone else) in the
head? This was the only time when I was significantly aware of HW security,
when walking down the exit ramp I could hear a security guy, just behind me,
radioing someone to ask permission to question a rider about something. I
thought he was going to stop me, but it was someone else in a FL Gator
sweatshirt. I don't know if it was about the camera, or what.
After the kafuffle for that incident, we decided to go back to Raven.
Following a drink at an oasis, we ended up riding Raven maybe 7 times? Can't
remember, but did at least 4 in the same seats, power riding. Then a brief
reconnoitering with our party, and Jimmy, Andrew & I went back down to
Legend. By then, it was running the best of the time I was there. We ended
up marathoning on that for maybe 4 rides? For that we were in the front. It
was pretty good, but there's still something I don't quite like about
Legend. Also there was significant smoke from the campground, just hanging
there in the valley, which was making it slightly hard to breathe.
Then we went back to The Voyage, at about 11pm? This turned into a truly
delightful time for me. Between 11 - 11:30pm I got 6 rides on The Voyage,
and the last 3 were marathon in the same seat. In fact, it just happened I
was a rider on the very last train of riders that night, at 11:30. I was in
the left seat, 4th from the back. Jimmy & Andrew were behind myself and a
guy named Will, someone we met at the picnic.
Those final rides on Saturday night, they were magical. It was so
unbelievably fun, beautiful, exciting, and violent. I can see it all in my
mind. Every moment. The people in front of me, some redhead woman with long
hair that just flew. She was just laughing and laughing. Going up the lift
hill, seeing a layer of smoke down below us, with everything still and
silent except for the train. The air was crisp, but not cold. The Floridian,
me, I was fine temperature-wise, even though I only had a t-shirt on. Going
up the hill, seeing everything around lighted softly, it was like being on
top of the world. Seeing the flags at the top with stars behind them. I can
see each second in my mind. And then the drop - 5 seconds of falling,
free-falling, nothing there until the bottom wham and then back up, an
annoying 'bam' near the top of hill 2, where I wonder if the train wheels
were leaving the track, only to slam back down on them? It felt as if that
were happening. Now up and down thru the woods, rushing on and on, that girl's
hair whipping in the car ahead, people happily screaming - they were all
having so much fun. Making that dark turnaround in the woods and then back
up to the brake run - yeah, it was lighted but I didn't care, because
swoop! - back down into the tunnels and that triple drop. I love that
feature - I know it's coming now, but it's a delight. Come up out of that
tunnel and ferociously flying thru the woods, and now the violence just
breaks loose! Coming back, crossing under the lift hill, this wild ride in
the night is speeding up? It feels that way. Will, seated next to me, is
shouting "Awesome!" and there is still a third of the course to go.
Thrashing back and forth, it seems like the train is fighting gravity,
trying to break free. Hurling itself one way and then another, flying thru
the night, unable to burn off any energy until finally (with regret) it
comes upon the final brake run and is wrestled to a stop. People screaming
'yes!' and everyone is spontaneously applauding, everyone. I have some big
headache, but I don't care. Coming into the station, the ops are applauding
and saying goodnite. I don't want it to ever end. I think about it, I replay
it in my mind constantly. I will never forget that night, and those rides. I
have seven bruises which are beginning to fade, but I don't want them to
fade, they are part of the connection, part of the moment.
So, my first 'enthusiast' ERT on The Voyage? It became a quixotic,
romanticized occasion for me. It was a magic instant in time. Wonderful,
breathtaking; I will remember it for the rest of my life.
-TH
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24-06-2008, 02:16 AM
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#2
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Re: My (very late) HoliWood Nights TR
On Jun 23, 8:30�am, "Poster" <Pos...@poster.com> wrote:
> Yep, it's been a month since Holiwood Nights. If you think this topic is
> dated, read no more. This was written Thurs May 29 as part of a private
> email. Life interrupted: �illness, significant family events, a wedding (not
> mine) have occupied my time. Now, this TR is posted by request. I am aware
> of the sturm und drang regarding the event. In no way do I diminish the
> opinions of others regarding their experiences. As someone who had never
> been to Holiday World or an 'enthusiast event', this simply gives my
> impression of what I experienced:
>
> * * *
>
> May 25 -26, 2008 - HoliWood Nights at Holiday World, in Santa Claus Indiana:
>
> I loved the coasters and Holiday World. I do not even know how many coaster
> rides I had, although I have tried to count them up. Maybe 40? I didn't
> 'hate' any of them, but if I had to choose I would say Voyage is best and
> Legend is my least favorite. I even did the Howler - 2X. I also did some
> flat rides, such as Liberty Launch, The Scrambler, HallowSwings, Gobbler
> Getaway and Turkey Whirl. �Although I went and got wet there, I won't take
> the time to discuss Splashin' Safari.
>
> Raven is good, and I like it, except it seems too short - as if it ends too
> soon? � Legend is good for length, but I don't care so much aboutall the
> side to side lateral action. Howler is cute and I enjoyed seeing little kids
> having fun on it. And then there is The Voyage.
>
> I've never been to Holiday World before, did not really know it existed
> until several years ago. So, I'd never been on The Voyage (or any other ride
> there) before this trip. Can't compare it to when it was new, or sometime
> when it was raining, or a ride when the moon was in retrograde with Jupiter,
> or any other occasion. For every attraction at H. W., this was my first time
> to experience them.
>
> I was definitely intimidated by The Voyage, from discussion, and from seeing
> it. I had doubts about whether I would tolerate it, or even like it at all?
> But it ended up being my favorite.
>
> I went to Holiday World to "DO" this event. I mean I wanted to do
> everything, see everything, as much as possible. So, I very much wanted to
> go on the walkback for Voyage, which I did. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I loved
> seeing every inch of the thing. Holding a metal post under the lift hill and
> feeling the train returning, going overhead, and roaring back to the
> station. Seeing it go thru the woods, the tunnels, the banked turns. It was
> fascinating for me. This was something I had never had an opportunity to do
> before. Maybe I'm a geek, but I don't care.
>
> I did a couple of Voyage rides early in ERT, including a back seat ride on
> which someone up front was holding up a camera for the entire ride. Gee,
> wouldn't that have been nice to fly back and hit me (or someone else) in the
> head? This was the only time when I was significantly aware of HW security,
> when walking down the exit ramp I could hear a security guy, just behind me,
> radioing someone to ask permission to question a rider about something. I
> thought he was going to stop me, but it was someone else in a FL Gator
> sweatshirt. I don't know if it was about the camera, or what.
>
> After the kafuffle for that incident, we decided to go back to Raven.
> Following a drink at an oasis, we ended up riding Raven maybe 7 times? Can't
> remember, but did at least 4 in the same seats, power riding. Then a brief
> reconnoitering with our party, and Jimmy, Andrew & I went back down to
> Legend. By then, it was running the best of the time I was there. We ended
> up marathoning on that for maybe 4 rides? For that we were in the front. It
> was pretty good, but there's still something I don't quite like about
> Legend. Also there was significant smoke from the campground, just hanging
> there in the valley, which was making it slightly hard to breathe.
>
> Then we went back to The Voyage, at about 11pm? This turned into a truly
> delightful time for me. Between 11 - 11:30pm I got 6 rides on The Voyage,
> and the last 3 were marathon in the same seat. In fact, it just happened I
> was a rider on the very last train of riders that night, at 11:30. I was in
> the left seat, 4th from the back. Jimmy & Andrew were behind myself and a
> guy named Will, someone we met at the picnic.
>
> Those final rides on Saturday night, they were magical. It was so
> unbelievably fun, beautiful, exciting, and violent. I can see it all in my
> mind. Every moment. The people in front of me, some redhead woman with long
> hair that just flew. She was just laughing and laughing. Going up the lift
> hill, seeing a layer of smoke down below us, with everything still and
> silent except for the train. The air was crisp, but not cold. The Floridian,
> me, I was fine temperature-wise, even though I only had a t-shirt on. Going
> up the hill, seeing everything around lighted softly, it was like being on
> top of the world. Seeing the flags at the top with stars behind them. I can
> see each second in my mind. And then the drop - 5 seconds of falling,
> free-falling, nothing there until the bottom wham and then back up, an
> annoying 'bam' near the top of hill 2, where I wonder if the train wheels
> were leaving the track, only to slam back down on them? It felt as if that
> were happening. Now up and down thru the woods, rushing on and on, that girl's
> hair whipping in the car ahead, people happily screaming - they were all
> having so much fun. Making that dark turnaround in the woods and then back
> up to the brake run - yeah, it was lighted but I didn't care, because
> swoop! - back down into the tunnels and that triple drop. I love that
> feature - I know it's coming now, but it's a delight. Come up out of that
> tunnel and ferociously flying thru the woods, and now the violence just
> breaks loose! Coming back, crossing under the lift hill, this wild ride in
> the night is speeding up? It feels that way. Will, seated next to me, is
> shouting "Awesome!" and there is still a third of the course to go.
> Thrashing back and forth, it seems like the train is fighting gravity,
> trying to break free. Hurling itself one way and then another, flying thru
> the night, unable to burn off any energy until finally (with regret) it
> comes upon the final brake run and is wrestled to a stop. People screaming
> 'yes!' and everyone is spontaneously applauding, everyone. I have some big
> headache, but I don't care. Coming into the station, the ops are applauding
> and saying goodnite. I don't want it to ever end. I think about it, I replay
> it in my mind constantly. I will never forget that night, and those rides.. I
> have seven bruises which are beginning to fade, but I don't want them to
> fade, they are part of the connection, part of the moment.
>
> So, my first 'enthusiast' ERT on The Voyage? It became a quixotic,
> romanticized occasion for me. It was a magic instant in time. Wonderful,
> breathtaking; I will remember it for the rest of my life.
>
> -TH
Nice TR, TH! You sure picked a helluva coaster for your first ERT!
Welcome to the Voyage Fan Club! 
Kevin
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24-06-2008, 09:13 AM
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#3
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Re: My (very late) HoliWood Nights TR
"Poster" <Poster@poster.com> wrote in message
news:ugP7k.10508$LL4.5920@bignews7.bellsouth.net.. .
> Yep, it's been a month since Holiwood Nights.
Very nice TR, "Poster". :-)
Reminds me of when I was not jaded, lol! Thanks for posting it.
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24-06-2008, 10:35 AM
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#4
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Re: My (very late) HoliWood Nights TR
The Voyage is my number one and I've only ridden it virtually.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym2nwJw3SFw
I think about this ride almost on a daily basis and am so frustrated I
havn't the means to get up there yet. Just watching the POV video; I
can tell it is something special that doesn't compare to anything I
have ridden as of this date. Someday soon hopefully....
Anyway nice TR.
BTW what is a ERT ???
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24-06-2008, 11:01 AM
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#5
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Re: My (very late) HoliWood Nights TR
On Jun 23, 5:35 pm, Mr Bungle 34 <michael_grov...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> The Voyage is my number one and I've only ridden it virtually.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym2nwJw3SFw
>
> I think about this ride almost on a daily basis and am so frustrated I
> havn't the means to get up there yet. Just watching the POV video; I
> can tell it is something special that doesn't compare to anything I
> have ridden as of this date. Someday soon hopefully....
>
> Anyway nice TR.
>
> BTW what is a ERT ???
Exclusive Riding Time
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24-06-2008, 04:18 PM
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#6
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Re: My (very late) HoliWood Nights TR
"Poster" <Poster@poster.com> wrote in message
news:ugP7k.10508$LL4.5920@bignews7.bellsouth.net.. .
> May 25 -26, 2008 - HoliWood Nights at Holiday World, in Santa Claus
> Indiana:
>
> I loved the coasters and Holiday World. I do not even know how many
> coaster rides I had, although I have tried to count them up. Maybe 40? I
> didn't 'hate' any of them, but if I had to choose I would say Voyage is
> best and Legend is my least favorite. I even did the Howler - 2X.
And you got the first pictures ever of Jimmy ridding a kiddie coaster!
> I also did some flat rides, such as Liberty Launch, The Scrambler,
> HallowSwings, Gobbler Getaway and Turkey Whirl. Although I went and got
> wet there, I won't take the time to discuss Splashin' Safari.
But we were shocked and delighted that you got your Florida self in those
frigid waters, and how fun was that!?
> Raven is good, and I like it, except it seems too short - as if it ends
> too soon?
Raven is as Raven does. Sure it's short, and ends before it seems like it
gets to the ending, but what it does with what it's got is unlike anything
else.
> I did a couple of Voyage rides early in ERT, including a back seat ride on
> which someone up front was holding up a camera for the entire ride. Gee,
> wouldn't that have been nice to fly back and hit me (or someone else) in
> the head? This was the only time when I was significantly aware of HW
> security, when walking down the exit ramp I could hear a security guy,
> just behind me, radioing someone to ask permission to question a rider
> about something.
I backed out of the disscusion of "security" issues a while ago. But being
on that same train, and knowing that the "impaired" party was being
questioned shortly thereafter, I have to say that I was much more concerned
about the LCD screen I had seen at the front of the train than I was about
his BAC. I'd like to think that it was the same party involved, because
that would explain a lot, but who's to say?
> After the kafuffle for that incident, we decided to go back to Raven.
> Following a drink at an oasis, we ended up riding Raven maybe 7 times?
> Can't remember, but did at least 4 in the same seats, power riding. Then a
> brief reconnoitering with our party, and Jimmy, Andrew & I went back down
> to Legend. By then, it was running the best of the time I was there. We
> ended up marathoning on that for maybe 4 rides? For that we were in the
> front. It was pretty good, but there's still something I don't quite like
> about Legend.
That series of rides was by far the best I have ever had on Legend. I'm
with you on not being wild about that ride's emphasis on latterals, but that
is what the last two thirds of the ride is about. On the other hand, I've
always loved how dissorienting that thing can be at night. At that time of
the night that ride was out of control, and the front of the train was
tracking beautifuly. I
could easily have taken a half dozen more rides in the same seat... had it
not been for the call of the Voyage.
> Then we went back to The Voyage, at about 11pm? This turned into a truly
> delightful time for me. Between 11 - 11:30pm I got 6 rides on The Voyage,
> and the last 3 were marathon in the same seat. In fact, it just happened I
> was a rider on the very last train of riders that night, at 11:30. I was
> in the left seat, 4th from the back. Jimmy & Andrew were behind myself and
> a guy named Will, someone we met at the picnic.
Ah yes, Will. I think he first introduced himself as Guillermo, but then
said to just call him Will. I'm so glad that he ended up with us at the end
of the evening. At dinner, he didn't strike me as being alone, but later I
got the feeling that he was there by himself. He was such a nice fellow. I
do hope to run into him again.
> Those final rides on Saturday night, they were magical. It was so
> unbelievably fun, beautiful, exciting, and violent. I can see it all in my
> mind. Every moment. The people in front of me, some redhead woman with
> long hair that just flew. She was just laughing and laughing. Going up the
> lift hill, seeing a layer of smoke down below us, with everything still
> and silent except for the train. The air was crisp, but not cold. The
> Floridian, me, I was fine temperature-wise, even though I only had a
> t-shirt on. Going up the hill, seeing everything around lighted softly, it
> was like being on top of the world. Seeing the flags at the top with stars
> behind them. I can see each second in my mind. And then the drop - 5
> seconds of falling, free-falling, nothing there until the bottom wham and
> then back up, an annoying 'bam' near the top of hill 2, where I wonder if
> the train wheels were leaving the track, only to slam back down on them?
> It felt as if that were happening. Now up and down thru the woods, rushing
> on and on, that girl's hair whipping in the car ahead, people happily
> screaming - they were all having so much fun. Making that dark turnaround
> in the woods and then back up to the brake run - yeah, it was lighted but
> I didn't care, because swoop! - back down into the tunnels and that triple
> drop. I love that feature - I know it's coming now, but it's a delight.
> Come up out of that tunnel and ferociously flying thru the woods, and now
> the violence just breaks loose! Coming back, crossing under the lift hill,
> this wild ride in the night is speeding up? It feels that way. Will,
> seated next to me, is shouting "Awesome!" and there is still a third of
> the course to go. Thrashing back and forth, it seems like the train is
> fighting gravity, trying to break free. Hurling itself one way and then
> another, flying thru the night, unable to burn off any energy until
> finally (with regret) it comes upon the final brake run and is wrestled to
> a stop. People screaming 'yes!' and everyone is spontaneously applauding,
> everyone. I have some big headache, but I don't care. Coming into the
> station, the ops are applauding and saying goodnite. I don't want it to
> ever end. I think about it, I replay it in my mind constantly. I will
> never forget that night, and those rides. I have seven bruises which are
> beginning to fade, but I don't want them to fade, they are part of the
> connection, part of the moment.
Man... I couldn't possibly sum it up any better than that. Magical
certainly describes everything that happened in the last hours of that
event; especially that evening ending series of rides on Voyage. And
believe me when I say that Jimmy and I are honored to have spent that time
with you. We're still talking about it. Can't wait to see you at the next
event!
Andrew Brawley
fade out to reply
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24-06-2008, 11:55 PM
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#7
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Re: My (very late) HoliWood Nights TR
"Poster" <Poster@poster.com> wrote in message
news:ugP7k.10508$LL4.5920@bignews7.bellsouth.net.. .
> I was fine temperature-wise, even though I only had a t-shirt on.
Scandal! Hope you sat on a towel.
--
Keith Hopkins
susskins@sssssssssgmail.ssssssssscom
[clear up the hissing to email]
"Excuse me, sir, but you appear to be sitting
on my gown. Would you be so kind as to move?"
Mark McKenzie
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27-06-2008, 08:23 AM
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#8
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Re: My (very late) HoliWood Nights TR
"Keith Hopkins" wrote in message
>> I was fine temperature-wise, even though I only had a t-shirt on.
>
> Scandal! Hope you sat on a towel.
See, those Big Brother lift hill cameras can't see everything!
-Tom H
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27-06-2008, 09:13 AM
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#9
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Re: My (very late) HoliWood Nights TR
Hi Andrew! <waves>
"> And you got the first pictures ever of Jimmy ridding a kiddie coaster!
Yeah, I was happy that they came out so well!
>>I won't take the time to discuss Splashin' Safari.
> But we were shocked and delighted that you got your Florida self in those
> frigid waters, and how fun was that!?
I'm glad I did go, but I was apprehensive beforehand. I had been told how
cold it had been in previous years, so I thought I would not tolerate it.
Now I wish I had gone earlier, instead of blobbing around in the S. Lodge
pool.
Was only able to do each ride 1X, so they are all somewhat jumbled in my
mind. But stairs... much! Sheesh! I'm spoiled by everything in Florida
having a geezer ramp. I guess my favorite was the one that ended in the big
funnel?
Didn't discuss, because I had already written the first chapter of a novel,
anyways.
> Raven is as Raven does. Sure it's short, and ends before it seems like it
> gets to the ending, but what it does with what it's got is unlike anything
> else.
Like I said, I did not dislike it. It just always seemed that when it
braked to go into the station, there should be about 1/3 or 1/2 more ride to
follow?
>> This was the only time when I was significantly aware of HW security,
>> when walking down the exit ramp I could hear a security guy,
>
> I backed out of the disscusion of "security" issues a while ago. But
> being on that same train, and knowing that the "impaired" party was being
> questioned shortly thereafter, I have to say that I was much more
> concerned about the LCD screen I had seen at the front of the train than I
> was about his BAC. I'd like to think that it was the same party involved,
> because that would explain a lot, but who's to say?
Yeah, did not want to lurk around and snoop. Oh, but the speakers yelling
at people about facing forward on Voyage lift hill - very Big Brother-ish
and annoying. I never saw anyone physically turning around, but talking
over your shoulder is such a problem? That did seem excessively
puritanical.
I guess I "got with the program" because I was pushing my size 12's all the
way forward, which in my case meant the difference of an inch or so? Those
PTC cars are not exactly land yachts. But I was doing it for my own back
comfort, not because anyone told me to. So, no spanking for me about foot
issues. That, and I just started holding my hands overhead so the ride ops
could feel me up for seatbelt check. I never felt "stapled", on any
coaster.
My issue is having my camera taken away from me. It's my property. I did
have the means to secure it, safely. Just do not like handing over a $450
camera to a ride op. I find it both insulting, and alarming. If they don't
trust me with my own property, why should I trust them, HW, with my
property? Trust works both ways.
> That series of rides was by far the best I have ever had on Legend. I'm
> with you on not being wild about that ride's emphasis on latterals, but
> that is what the last two thirds of the ride is about. On the other hand,
> I've always loved how dissorienting that thing can be at night. At that
> time of the night that ride was out of control, and the front of the train
> was tracking beautifuly. I could easily have taken a half dozen more
> rides in the same seat... had it not been for the call of the Voyage.
Yeah, I ended up seated with a man (didn't get his name) who had been on
Legend for 18, 19 straight, in the same seat? He was loving that night, and
saying how well Legend was running. You are correct about the
disorientation. I never got to the point where I could anticipate what
element was coming next, on Legend.
>> Jimmy & Andrew were behind myself and a guy named Will, someone we met at
>> the picnic.
> Ah yes, Will. I think he first introduced himself as Guillermo, but then
> said to just call him Will. I'm so glad that he ended up with us at the
> end of the evening. At dinner, he didn't strike me as being alone, but
> later I got the feeling that he was there by himself. He was such a nice
> fellow. I do hope to run into him again.
I'm also sorry we did not realize he was solo, at the picnic. Kinda quiet
there, but he made up for it later on the magic Voyage rides!
>
> Man... I couldn't possibly sum it up any better than that. Magical
> certainly describes everything that happened in the last hours of that
> event; especially that evening ending series of rides on Voyage. >
Yep, it was a "had to be there" moment. There was just something about that
last half hour of Voyage ERT that is, forever, impossible to put into words.
-Tom H
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27-06-2008, 09:21 AM
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#10
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Re: My (very late) HoliWood Nights TR
"> Very nice TR, "Poster". :-)
Yeah, sorry for the effed-up posting. I'm having severe Outlook issues, and
I changed that after one "detect and repair", and forgot to change it back.
We can just add this to Tom's Screw-Ups, Volume 33, Chapter 7.
Tom H ("Poster")
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27-06-2008, 10:14 AM
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#11
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Re: My (very late) HoliWood Nights TR
"AirtimeJunkie" wrote >
Nice TR, TH! You sure picked a helluva coaster for your first ERT!
Welcome to the Voyage Fan Club!
Kevin
Thanks for reading Kevin, I'm glad you enjoyed it. Were you there?
Tom H
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