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17-02-2004, 10:50 AM
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#16
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Re: Why would a garage door torsion spring break & is two better than one?
Slinky wrote:
> On 14 Feb 2004 21:03:06 -0800, brokenklutz@yahoo.com (DIY Klutz)
> wrote:
>
>> Crack! Came this loud noise just now from inside my garage!
>> My car is now held ransom in the garage until I fix this!
>
> Your car is not "held ransom" by anything except, possibly, your
> failure to realize that you can pull the little red cord hanging from
> the toggle bar on the GDO and yourself raise the door by exerting a
> little effort.
But what if he does not have a GDO? A manual door must also have a spring
or some sort of balance.
Not everyone leads the exact same life you do and has the same exact garage
setup. --
Ed
esp@snet.net
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
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17-02-2004, 10:50 AM
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#17
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Re: Why would a garage door torsion spring break & is two better than one?
nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu wrote:
> Bill Seurer <Bill@seurer.netNOSPAM> wrote:
>
>> The spring(s) should be sized to the door.
>
> Does a garage door with an electric opener need a spring?
>
> What ever happened to counterweights?
>
> Nick
Not a question of having an electric opener or not; same deal with a manual
door. A spring takes the weight of the door and acts as the counterweight.
Sure a chain, pully system, and the right weight will do the same thing, but
setting them up in an unobstrusive place may be a problem. You don't want
the weights to come down on you car or your kids standing in the garage when
you open the door.
Electric openers can be made to overcome the door weight, but then they
become more expensive. Then their is the safety factor of h aving a heavy
door come down if the link breaks and no spring or counterweight is in
place.
--
Ed
esp@snet.net
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
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17-02-2004, 10:50 AM
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#18
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Re: Why would a garage door torsion spring break & is two better than one?
"Michael Baugh" <baughfam@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:rXKXb.28571$Bv3.14881@bignews3.bellsouth.net. ..
> Wrong answer. If you were more familiar with the subject, you'd
> understand why.
> In fact, it will require considerable effort, but it can be done, even if
> it's a little at a time with scissors jacks on the broken-spring side.
Not at all. I had a spring break last year. You do pull the little red
cord to disengage the door opener and then you can open the door manually.
It does take effort, since the spring no longer provides any lifting help.
> Slinky <slinky@do.fysh.not.org.spam> wrote in message
> news:b6uu201o5ivcieou68392qkpb524k5es9c@4ax.com...
> > On 14 Feb 2004 21:03:06 -0800, brokenklutz@yahoo.com (DIY Klutz)
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Crack! Came this loud noise just now from inside my garage!
> > >My car is now held ransom in the garage until I fix this!
> >
> > Your car is not "held ransom" by anything except, possibly, your
> > failure to realize that you can pull the little red cord hanging from
> > the toggle bar on the GDO and yourself raise the door by exerting a
> > little effort.
>
>
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17-02-2004, 10:50 AM
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#19
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Re: Why would a garage door torsion spring break & is two better than one?
"Michael Baugh" <baughfam@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:rXKXb.28571$Bv3.14881@bignews3.bellsouth.net. ..
> Wrong answer. If you were more familiar with the subject, you'd
> understand why.
> In fact, it will require considerable effort, but it can be done, even if
> it's a little at a time with scissors jacks on the broken-spring side.
Or use a long 2x4 as a lever.
Lift one side a little and prop it up.
Lift the other side a little higher and prop it up.
etc.
Work equals force times distance.
Increasing the distance to do the same work requires less force.
Don
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17-02-2004, 10:50 AM
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#20
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Re: Why would a garage door torsion spring break & is two better than one?
"DIY Klutz" <brokenklutz@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1dfb2e58.0402142103.7d9a6f25@posting.google.c om...
<snip>
> Is this something a basic DIY should tackle (I have only
> basic know how, nothing special ... but I've never had my
> car fixed by a mechanic, for example, so I can do a few things).
<snip>
I repair multimillion dollar printing presses for a living and have for more
than 15 years. I am certified by the Federal Aviation Administration as an
aircraft mechanic, have been on race car pit crews, etc, so I do consider
myself mechanically inclined, but this is a task that I would NEVER consider
doing.
Pay the $100 and have it done.
Spending several weeks or more in the hospital to save $50 isn't frugal.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.580 / Virus Database: 367 - Release Date: 2/6/04
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17-02-2004, 10:51 AM
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#21
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Re: Why would a garage door torsion spring break & is two better than one?
On 14 Feb 2004 21:03:06 -0800, brokenklutz@yahoo.com (DIY Klutz)
wrote:
>Crack! Came this loud noise just now from inside my garage!
>My car is now held ransom in the garage until I fix this!
>
>Upon inspection, the only thing awry is the torsion spring
>(bolted transversely across the garage door crossbar opening)
>had snapped in two unequal sections (seemingly on it's own).
>
>This three-foot-long three-inch-diameter coil spring seems
>to be held on each end with brackets bolted to a transverse
>bar which traverses the length of the garage-door opening.
>I never even noticed the thing before; and, I'm not quite
>sure what it does, but, the owners manual for the door calls
>it a 'torsion' spring.
>
>QUESTION 1:
As others have mentioned, things just break.
I replaced my own garage door about 2 years ago by myself. The new
door is a heavy 16X8 insulated with windows on top, it uses just a
single torsion spring. Two would be overkill for a standard door and
more difficult to set equally.
The torsion spring set up my new door came with is a really nice (and
somewhat safer) design than the older styles.
Winding the spring was simply done with my rechargable DeWalt drill.
A special bit was included with the kit. There are white marks across
the spring, when all the white marks line up to form a continuous line
the spring is just about at where it should be and only minor
adjustments need to be made.
Installing the and setting the spring was the easiest part of the job
but seeing the amount of energy stored up in that spring is enough to
scare the shit out of anyone and if you do something wrong it'll take
your head clean off. Anyone considering doing it on their own better
be real confident in their skills.
I also replaced the 16X7 door on my parents garage about 10 years ago.
It uses standard springs across the top tracks. Those can be deadly
too but are at least contained with safety cables in the center.
George
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17-02-2004, 10:51 AM
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#22
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Re: Why would a garage door torsion spring break & is two better than one?
Here is a document with pictures and instrucitons on how to replace
your own torsion spring.
http://truetex.com/garage.htm
PJ
On 14 Feb 2004 21:03:06 -0800, brokenklutz@yahoo.com (DIY Klutz)
wrote:
>Crack! Came this loud noise just now from inside my garage!
>My car is now held ransom in the garage until I fix this!
>
>Upon inspection, the only thing awry is the torsion spring
>(bolted transversely across the garage door crossbar opening)
>had snapped in two unequal sections (seemingly on it's own).
>
>This three-foot-long three-inch-diameter coil spring seems
>to be held on each end with brackets bolted to a transverse
>bar which traverses the length of the garage-door opening.
>I never even noticed the thing before; and, I'm not quite
>sure what it does, but, the owners manual for the door calls
>it a 'torsion' spring.
>
>QUESTION 1:
> Why would this strong torsion spring break all by itself?
>
> Presumably the answer is that it was weakened from four
> years of daily opening and finally broke on its own
> (the garage door was down & quiescent at the time).
>
>QUESTION 2:
> If one torsion spring broke - would installing two be better?
>
> The presumption is that the 2-car steel garage door may be
> a bit too heavy for the one 3-foot torsion spring installed
> by the previous owner. This 3-inch wide torsion spring is
> mounted centrally on one side of the cross beam parallel
> to the door & perpendicular to the direction the door opens.
>
> Would two torsion springs be indicated if one snaps or is
> snapping springs every four years a normal situation?
>
>QUESTION 3:
> Some Internet posts intimate it's a do-it-yourself job;
> others provide dire warnings. It's hard to tell (did you ever
> hear all the dire warnings about doing your own disc brake
> pad replacement? Or climbing on the roof to mount an antenna.
> You can never tell (heck, when it drizzles out here in the bay
> area, the radio stations call it a 'storm' & caution against
> driving). Everyone is a wussie when it comes to admonition.
>
> Is this something a basic DIY should tackle (I have only
> basic know how, nothing special ... but I've never had my
> car fixed by a mechanic, for example, so I can do a few things).
>
>Obviously I've never installed a torsion spring before (I'm still
>not sure how it 'balances' the door), nor what 'special' tools
>might be needed to install it. (Home Depot has them for 30 bucks
>in stock; but I'm not sure exactly how to get the right size.)
>
>I simply ask that someone who has done the job themselves, please
>advise me on the three questions above.
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17-02-2004, 10:51 AM
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#23
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Re: Why would a garage door torsion spring break & is two better than one?
A "little force" to lift an older composite double garage door with even 1
of the 2 springs broken is somewhat of an understatement, and I'm 6'-2" and
240 lbs. Barely was able to lift it half way, rested it on wife's shoulder,
then bench pressed it the rest of the way.
Also best way I can describe changing the spring is: I can do mine myself,
because I pay full attention with NO daydreaming, I feel safe doing it (have
replaced three). But I would NEVER recommend to anyone else that they do
it, because of the EXTREME physical risk if they are NOT as diligent as I
feel I am. If you don't get the rods fully into the tightening holes, or if
your hand slips for any reason, you're toast!
MB
>>Not at all. I had a spring break last year. You do pull the little red
>>cord to disengage the door opener and then you can open the door manually.
>>It does take effort, since the spring no longer provides any lifting help.
"Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> wrote in message
news:xnMXb.10600$wP6.7672@newssvr31.news.prodigy.c om...
> Slinky wrote:
> > On 14 Feb 2004 21:03:06 -0800, brokenklutz@yahoo.com (DIY Klutz)
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Crack! Came this loud noise just now from inside my garage!
> >> My car is now held ransom in the garage until I fix this!
> >
> > Your car is not "held ransom" by anything except, possibly, your
> > failure to realize that you can pull the little red cord hanging from
> > the toggle bar on the GDO and yourself raise the door by exerting a
> > little effort.
>
> But what if he does not have a GDO? A manual door must also have a spring
> or some sort of balance.
>
> Not everyone leads the exact same life you do and has the same exact
garage
> setup. --
> Ed
> esp@snet.net
> http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
>
>
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17-02-2004, 10:51 AM
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#24
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Re: Why would a garage door torsion spring break & is two better than one?
Sounds to me as if somebody is lazy.
It takes very little effort for a healthy adult to open a garage door.
Pull the little red cord to disengage the opener, grab the door handle
and heave it up. I had both GDOs go out on me over the summer and it
wasn't a major panic issue. Lift with your knees.
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17-02-2004, 10:51 AM
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#25
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Re: Why would a garage door torsion spring break & is two better than one?
"SHARX." <SHARX@SHARXTANKnospam.com> writes:
> Beachcomber wrote:
> >> "DIY Klutz" <brokenklutz@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>> Crack! Came this loud noise just now from inside my garage!
> >>> My car is now held ransom in the garage until I fix this!
> >
> > Steel and other metals have a physical characteristic called
> > "brittleness". If your garage was unusually cold at the time of the
> > break, that would be a reasonable cause. All springs will break over
> > a period of time (whether you are dealing with extreme temps or not).
> >
> > I agree with the other posters here in that, unless you are 100% sure
> > of what you are doing, this is the one job that you probably are
> > better off paying someone else to do.
> >
> > That's why the yellow pages (around here anyway) are filled with radio
> > dispatched garage door service firms that mostly go around and replace
> > broken springs.
> >
> > I was lucky to get an honest and experienced technician when mine
> > broke last year. He knew exactly what to do, had the correct
> > replacement in his truck, fixed it himself in less than an hour, and
> > charged me a reasonable $85.00. For that price he also adjusted the
> > chain drive and taught me how to reset the combination on my outdoor
> > keypad. The new spring is guaranteed for something like two years.
> >
>
> It's incredible how some people would risk their life or at least thousands
> of dollars in medical expenses just to save a few bucks. SOME repairs are
> dangerous and should be left to the experts. Period.
I replaced the broken spring on my door and didn't know I
was doing anything especially dangerous. It is granted
that one can do some damage to oneself, others, and/or
nearby objects if a slip is made during the tensioning of
the spring(s). However, I've done numerous things over the
years that had more potential for bodily harm, so I did
the garage door without any second thoughts. The tension
(energy) in the spring(s) isn't that great (at least in
terms of placing an object in low Earth orbit).
But, like working with electricity, do be careful. Bad
things can happen...
One thing of importance: If there are a pair of springs,
they are a left- and right-hand wound pair. Replacing
one with the wrong twist results in less than optimal
performance. I wasn't told or asked this by the dealer
for my door when I got the replacement spring from them.
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17-02-2004, 10:51 AM
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#26
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Re: Why would a garage door torsion spring break & is two better than one?
On 14 Feb 2004 21:03:06 -0800, brokenklutz@yahoo.com (DIY Klutz)
wrote:
>Crack! Came this loud noise just now from inside my garage!
>My car is now held ransom in the garage until I fix this!
>
>Upon inspection, the only thing awry is the torsion spring
>(bolted transversely across the garage door crossbar opening)
>had snapped in two unequal sections (seemingly on it's own).
>
>This three-foot-long three-inch-diameter coil spring seems
>to be held on each end with brackets bolted to a transverse
>bar which traverses the length of the garage-door opening.
>I never even noticed the thing before; and, I'm not quite
>sure what it does, but, the owners manual for the door calls
>it a 'torsion' spring.
>
>QUESTION 1:
> Why would this strong torsion spring break all by itself?
>
> Presumably the answer is that it was weakened from four
> years of daily opening and finally broke on its own
> (the garage door was down & quiescent at the time).
>
They can take about 8,000 cycles, then they break. The tension is
applied when the door is down (it has to be that way to lift the
weight.)
>QUESTION 2:
> If one torsion spring broke - would installing two be better?
>
> The presumption is that the 2-car steel garage door may be
> a bit too heavy for the one 3-foot torsion spring installed
> by the previous owner. This 3-inch wide torsion spring is
> mounted centrally on one side of the cross beam parallel
> to the door & perpendicular to the direction the door opens.
>
> Would two torsion springs be indicated if one snaps or is
> snapping springs every four years a normal situation?
A garage door mechanic can explain it.
>
>QUESTION 3:
> Some Internet posts intimate it's a do-it-yourself job;
> others provide dire warnings. It's hard to tell (did you ever
> hear all the dire warnings about doing your own disc brake
> pad replacement? Or climbing on the roof to mount an antenna.
> You can never tell (heck, when it drizzles out here in the bay
> area, the radio stations call it a 'storm' & caution against
> driving). Everyone is a wussie when it comes to admonition.
>
> Is this something a basic DIY should tackle (I have only
> basic know how, nothing special ... but I've never had my
> car fixed by a mechanic, for example, so I can do a few things).
>
No. I know a guy who got his thumb ripped off while messing with a
torsion spring. Leave this job to the professionals.
>Obviously I've never installed a torsion spring before (I'm still
>not sure how it 'balances' the door), nor what 'special' tools
>might be needed to install it. (Home Depot has them for 30 bucks
>in stock; but I'm not sure exactly how to get the right size.)
>
>I simply ask that someone who has done the job themselves, please
>advise me on the three questions above.
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17-02-2004, 10:51 AM
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#27
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Re: Why would a garage door torsion spring break & is two better than one?
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 17:04:21 GMT, "Chuck" <chuck@nohost.invalid>
wrote:
>
>I repair multimillion dollar printing presses for a living and have for more
>than 15 years. I am certified by the Federal Aviation Administration as an
>aircraft mechanic, have been on race car pit crews, etc, so I do consider
>myself mechanically inclined, but this is a task that I would NEVER consider
>doing.
>
>Pay the $100 and have it done.
>
>Spending several weeks or more in the hospital to save $50 isn't frugal.
>
Same here, different skills. That's why I've done it before when
money was tight. But it was hairy, and probably not worth it anyway,
because due caution combined with inexperience makes it take 5-10
times longer to do it than it does for a pro.
Besides safety issues and if your time and psyche have any value,
if you get a competitive rate from a pro, you'll *save*. His spring
will be the right one, installed correctly, his work will carry a
guarantee, and he gets the spring for about half of what you pay.
BTW, if your door is a heavy one, it can be as dangerous as the
spring. Remember that if you hoist it manually and drop it, it will
be accelerating as it crashes to the ground. Any digit caught in a
gap between segments will be severely mangled and perhaps require
amputation (drove a neighbor with some ugly looking fingers to the
hospital). Any limb under the door will be severely injured, perhaps
requiring amputation. The shock of the door crashing upon the ground
may derail it, causing it to fall upon you, causing severe injury,
perhaps requiring a funeral.
--Vic
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17-02-2004, 10:51 AM
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#28
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Re: Why would a garage door torsion spring break & is two better than one?
"Michael Baugh" <baughfam@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<sjMXb.55863$8a5.27319@bignews1.bellsouth.net>...
> That's been my view as well. But even a routinely competent
> DIY had better pay serious attention to what's being done.
>
Torsion springs that wind with a regular drill...
http://www.roseto-suter.com/springs.html
Just an example, but I have installed these with ease. A definate DIY.
Thomas
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17-02-2004, 10:51 AM
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#29
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Re: Why would a garage door torsion spring break & is two better than one?
Price would be nice.
Especially if it's a nice price.
Thomas <canopeily@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1ed96275.0402151137.1099dfe5@posting.google.c om...
> Torsion springs that wind with a regular drill...
> http://www.roseto-suter.com/springs.html
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17-02-2004, 10:51 AM
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#30
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Re: Why would a garage door torsion spring break & is two better than one?
DanG <dgriff23@7cox.net> wrote:
>Yes it needs the spring. It is the counterweight.
A Sears salesman told me that some people use their
garage door openers to pull boats out of the water.
Nick
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